Maxstar 150 or 200 ?

[LewisCobb]

Greetings - I'm looking over the specs of the Maxstar 150 and 200 Stick/TIG units and can't seem to decide what one would be best for me.

Here's some background -
I'm a complete novice that's about 1/2 way through a 30 hour night course on welding - we're covering everything in the course - torches, stick, MIG w/gas, and TIG. So far we've only covered the torches and stick. I have been using a little Maxstar 150S (no TIG) that a buddy of mine gave me while he's working out of town and I have to say, once I lit that thing up I didn't touch the old AC buzzers in the welding class after - such a smooth arc and my beads were a lot better too.

My situation is this - I have a completely finished garage (we're talking like a room in the house here with painted walls and ceiling and light fixtures etc.) - or - the back yard to do welding. Most of my interests for hobby projects are mild steel with some sheet metal, no stainless and probably no aluminum.

After reading a bunch of books on welding and all the different processes I think that a Stick / TIG unit is the best option for me. I can use the Stick outside when the weather is good and I have a large / dirty job to do and the TIG would be great in the garage (I even read about one lad using one in his apartment so figure I'm safe in my garage with one).

Here's the dilemna I am in - I can see working with up to 1/4" mild steel and it seems from the reading and digging around that I am doing, that the 150 maxstar is a little light for this thickness. Then again, maybe Tiging 1/4" is something that's not really recommended - I don't know.

So - what are the opinions from the experts on here ? If the money is not an issue, am I better off going with the Maxstar 200 unit for the extra 1000 bucks or will I only be wasting money on the extra options and power it has over the 150 ?

Sorry for the long winded post - I tend to ramble at times.

This is a great board by the way - I have to tip my hat to the folks at Miller on their website as well - I've been digging through it for weeks off and on and seem to uncover more stuff every time I am in here.

Thanks !

Lewis

[enlpck]

I have used both, but own a 150.

The 150 will run pretty much any 1/8" rod (some people have trouble with 6010 on the machine, but 6011 is fine.) on 240V, and some 5/32" rods. I have used mine for everything from razor blades (TIG) to full penetration stick welding of 5/8" thick lugs to 100000lb parts made of 3" plate (obviously, preheat and multipass used here). I have used it to TIG nozzles on boilers (full penetration, 1/2" wall 2"NPS nozzles, 3/8" shell plate, for example).

The 200 will do more, but at reduced portability and higher cost. It is a more aggressive stick machine, for sure, and the extra 50A may be handy, but mostly to let you go faster (fewer passes with larger rod). I don't see the extra 50A for TIG being of great use to a hobbiest on a DC only machine. To be honest, I have rarely ever had to go over about 130A TIG on low carbon or stainless, though this is good part due to the nature of the work I do (pipe up to maybe 4", boiler tubes, shell plates up to maybe 1/2", etc.)

On an AC machine, I would definately say go bigger, as it often seems impossible to but oversized when TIGging aluminum. For a DC machine, it is a tough call (yes, I'd like a 200 of my own, but can't justify the cost, and wouldn't give up the 150 even if I could justify the cost)

[LewisCobb]

Thanks for the well reasoned answer. I am starting to think that I could better use that extra 1000 bucks on something else based on the likelyhood of needing the extra 50 amps.

I really like the 150S of my buddy's that I have been using for the last few weeks and the small size is a real plus for me. Too bad the 150S cannot do TIG - I'd be able to get away without spending any money at all then for a while - at least until my friend appeared home someday :)

What 150 do you have ? The one with the HF or the one that does lift arc only? And if it's the latter one, do you have any regrets about not getting the one with the HF option and the extra doo-dad features that it provides?

Cheers,
Lewis

[engnerdan]

Get at least the 150 STL but if you want to splerge get the STH which has the HF start. I had a STl before I bought my Dynasty, they are a slick little unit and would not mind having one again.

-Dan

[Sberry]

My situation is this - I have a completely finished garage (we're talking like a room in the house here with painted walls and ceiling and light fixtures etc.) - or - the back yard to do welding. Most of my interests for hobby projects are mild steel with some sheet metal, no stainless and probably no aluminum. Here I am going to spin off a bit. Some of your previous experience may bias your choice. This application just screams 180 class wire feeder.

[Sberry]

If I am going to mess with tig it is because of the alum, like the man said, he eventually went to a Dynasty, unless you are in a specialty shop TIG for common steel projects is a waste. Sticks and wire feed. Feeder first, most widely used machines in this type of work. I wouldn't tig unless I had to.
I built hundreds, thousands of projects over the years, got the machines and use Tig on steel once in 30 yrs for a project for a bud. I think I run it one other time during set up when I got the machine to test it.

[cruizer]

The Maxstar 200SD, are great little units, and if you get more into Tig are easily upgradeable to the LX by merely changeing out the front display panel.

[Sberry]

The big use I see for the 200 Max is in piping, would work for roll cage work too but if I was racing I would want alum so a Dynasty but piping where tig roots and being able to run sticks with the same machine is the deal it would shine.
This is excluding pros who know what they need but the home/hobby crowd seems to be enamored with tig and hooking small wire feeds to gensets. Most should be mig in the garage and if portable is needed a 150 for sticks. I just bought a Max, didn't fool with the tig side, got the S. Last thing I want to do on portable is drag around more stuff than is needed.

[PUMPKINHEAD]

The Maxstar 200SD, are great little units, and if you get more into Tig are easily upgradeable to the LX by merely changeing out the front display panel.

yeah the 150's are great little units, the 200's are great 3X the weight of the 150 units.

LX? I dinna think the OP is going automated, so DX would prolly suit him fine.

[LewisCobb]

Lots of chatter here since I last checked in :)

We've not reached the MIG stuff in the course yet so I could be way out to lunch here, but from all the reading I have been doing, the TIG process is far cleaner is it not? (Albeit slower, but as mentioned earlier I could care less about speed seeing as it's hobby stuff). A guy I know at a business local to me is going to give me an intro to mig welding separate from the course so I'll have some first hand knowldege and experience to draw upon next week with him.

[dseman]

The Maxstar 200SD, are great little units, and if you get more into Tig are easily upgradeable to the LX by merely changeing out the front display panel.

Doh!. I thought I was the only one to have figured that out. (DX applies as well).

-dseman

[cruizer]

Doh!. I thought I was the only one to have figured that out. (DX applies as well).

-dseman


Yep I was fixing a bunch of SD's a couple had crushed front ends, Miller sent me the LX packages by mistake, or maybe it was me. but its' pretty simple and cost effective to make the machine into a LX or DX

You don't have to go automated on the LX, just gives you a whole bunch more front end toys

[Railmen]

Hey Cruizer could you send me a price in that front panel upgrade I have a 200SD now that might not be a bad idea...

sorry to hijack..

Railmen

[Sberry]

Yes Lewis, wait till you hit mig in class or take a couple spins on them. Like you said hobby stuff really = mig. For the most part everything else is great dust collectors in small shops. Really look at some of the guys here,, DDA (Don), Dan, Hank, Mac and see what their go to machines are. Main reason a hobby type needs one is hot rod roll cages, even nascar uses mig on theirs and I cant think of anything off hand where it would be preferred in a small shop.

[Sberry]

I see Millers Smart Selector asks to pick a process first, thats kind of *** backwards, ha.

[cruizer]

List out at $650, My price is somewhat lower though. You'd have to pm me for that price. Pretty easy to install.

[Sberry]

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler210/

[LewisCobb]

Hello again - I have now reached the point in the course I am taking where I have tried all the welding processes and would like to think I can make a more reasoned decision on what I am likely to need based on the projects I have in mind (and the cash I have burning a hole in my pocket).

I tried the MIG units - a 120V and a 240 and they are slick enough but the amount of sparks coming off them, even though less than the stick, are still not going to work in my garage. I could not master the TIG for the life of me but I was only on it for about 1/2 hour and after about 30 attempts, I managed to run a bead on some aluminum. Why the instructor set me off on aluminum could have been to make sure I did not get some false confidence with steel, or he wanted to humble me something fierce. Either way he succeeded. However, I am not broken and will master it no matter how long it takes.

I've got a line on a Maxstar 150STL for about 600 bucks. it includes the torch, a cart, a flowmeter and even a cylinder. I'm tempted to get it but it's a "lift arc" process only, not HF. The unit I used at the course was a Synchrowave 180 and so it was HF.

Can someone tell me their experiences (good and bad) with the lift arc process and how it compares to the HF if they have used both? One of the members here has warned me it was an exercise in frustration so I am a bit leary of getting this machine, but if there's a learning curve and the end result is joy and happiness, that's ok - I don't mind a challenge.

Thanks.

Lewis

[Burnt hands]

Hi LewisCobb,

I understand it may be a bit confusing as I was in your position many years ago.

I started work out of college at a company and met a wonderful welder who showed me many tricks which I would have paid good money today to learn.

I learned much from him although I was not a welder but a new "geek" engineer right out of college.

I still keep in touch and learn from him after 35 years and am extremely grateful to still have him as a mentor and a friend.
His price for help has been the same for 35 years - a case of beer.

I am truly lucky - he has more AWS and ASME Certifications than my dog has fleas.

Now I am semi-retired and weld for fun and to repair stuff for friends.

As the old cliche goes: If I knew now what I did 35 years ago.................

Anyway, my poor advice is that if you plan to continue welding even as a hobby, please give thought to buying something that
ou will not not outgrow too soon.

After I met my mentor, I read all I could find on welding and,like you, I took a welding course.

I then bought a used stick/tig welder like the one my mentor used.

$500 in 1976 was a like a used new car to me but I still have it today.

My advice is that if you can stretch your budget, consider a Dynasty 200.

If this is a bit over budget, go for a Maxstar 150 STH.

The tig features will be a plus if you have them.

Both will operate on 120/240 VAC.

If it is overkill, you can sell it and buy what works.

Also find a friend/mentor who welds who will teach you some tricks.

Over the years, I have kicked myself many times by not initially spending a litle more for a "better" or more capable machine. I have been lucky in that I have forced myself to learn to use the "better" features that the "fancier" machine had.
I have never regretted paying more for a machine with features better than my capabilities.
The few times when I had questions, I called my mentor and over a case of beer, he proceeded to show what he and my machine could do. His welds are smoother than what I can do with a caulking gun and he says "it's simple" - GRRRRRRRRRRR.........!.

I am still trying to replicate his welds which I keep in a box as reference samples.

So buy more - if you truly don't need it, there are many who will buy your machine.

I am still learning after 35 years and am more than willing to show others what I have learned.

Oh yes - I do not have mig equipment only tig/stick so I can't offer advice here.

Many others on this forum have great advice.

I fear that if I take a mig class, I will need buy a new piece of equipment and the wife will add a few more lumps to my head.

"I can melt metal - maybe I will learn to weld someday".

Remember - We were all beginners once.

Burnt hands

[LewisCobb]

BurntHands -

Thanks for the detailed posting. It's sort of put my mind at ease about buying "too much" of a machine as I start out on this path. I can get pretty much anything up to the Dynasty 200, but I keep asking myself - will I ever use the thing for aluminum, do I really need the pulsing etc. etc. I guess I'm just normal in this regard. And the lure of a bargin on craigslist pulls strong indeed - :D

You know, I'm no stranger to kicking myself about buying something less than I could afford and then later wishing I had not. I do a fair bit of woodworking and finally this year I said "no more cheap tools" and outfitted the shop with the best jointer, planer, tablesaw and bandsaw that I could afford - all at the same time - and stuff with a 5 year warranty to boot. I'm already grinning becuase the price of all the machines jumped by about 30% less than 3 months after I made the purchase. If I had waited and hummed and hawed - I'd be cussing once again.

The guy at the local welding shop pretty much said what you did - "the Dynasty might be overkill at this stage, but in 2 or three years you might just be kicking yourself when you want some feature that it has".

I have a company that I do work for from time to time that has offered to get me a good discount on a brand new Miller from their distributor - whatever Miller I want - becuase they buy so much stuff from them. Everything in their shop is Miller actually - and the last time I was into his place there were at least three or four huge blue cabinets bolted up on plastforms over his assembly area the size of refridgerators - the Miller name was on the side of them all. Time to give those lads a call and see what they can roust up for me I guess.

I'll be back with the result - or if I flip flop again and have more questions on some "smoking deal" that I came across before I had a chance to buy a new one.

Thanks again,
Lewis