bc vs alberta

[blazin454]

hey guys so im going for welding c in oct. ive heard people in alberta that say i should do schooling in alberta and that its better than bc... then guys in bc say bc is better? whats the difference and why is one better than the other?

[Maineiac]

I don't know why one would be better than the other. I'm sure the standards for both schools must be the same. I think it all depends who you are asking. I know alot of folks from BC and alot from Alberta and they are all great people. Go to either schools. Best of luck to you. Learn all you can. Welding and metal working is a fine trade and great fun. It's a great feeling to create something from metal than look back at your work and say I did that. You ability to be a great welder is on limited by your inability to try.
Best of luck to you, concentrate on your work, and you'll be fine.

Maineiac

[blazin454]

good to hear thank you

[Black Wolf]

No, the standards for both schools are not the same.

It has been the wish of many to get the Western Provinces to standardize the Apprenticeship Systems, so that the workers are equally trained, and can travel between the provinces with equal recognition for their achievements

Specific to your question, I will tell you what I believe to be true and you can take it with a grain of salt:

Here goes:

I believe that Alberta has a wider range of industry, and therefore a wider range of job opprotunities and different experiences.

I believe that the Alberta Apprenticeship is geared towards meeting the needs of the industries here, and by nature, have to train and produce the higher quality workers required.

I believe that because of the variety of our industries and working conditions, you will see and experience things here, within the trade, that you will not see anywhere else in Canada.

I believe that this province turns out some very high quality welders, and with the Journeyman Certificate and Inter-Provincial Red Seal, our trades people are recognized and sought after Canada wide for their skill set.
The "B" Pressure Certification is just icing on the cake.

Now.... Having said all that, the following is needed:

I believe that no matter where you are located, or where you are trained, the ONLY limitation to your abilities and skills will be YOU. If you have the drive and desire to excel and be the best in your chosen field, it will show in your work.

I have seen the finest of welders with little or no formal training....

I have seen licensed Journeyman that I swear got their licenses out of a box of Cracker Jacks.

The biggest difference between the two - Pride in their work.

Hopefully somewhere in my ramblings you will find some wisdom that makes sense to you.

If not, hey I tried.

[blazin454]

that seems to make sense.. i called the industry training authorty yesterday and they told me that if i was to go through the alberta apprenticeship program that when i was done if i came back here i would only be "B" certified where here when i get my "C" its no good in alberta but once i get my "B" i can get my red seal and go to alberta as a journeyman (provided i have the hours) she also told me that there are alot of ppl who only take their "C" ticket because its all they need around here (which conforms to what you said) she also told me that my "C" is structual, "B" is pressure, and my "A" is special processes. if anyone disagrees with this please provide me with proper information. thank you.

[duaneb55]

Now.... Having said all that, the following is needed:

I believe that no matter where you are located, or where you are trained, the ONLY limitation to your abilities and skills will be YOU. If you have the drive and desire to excel and be the best in your chosen field, it will show in your work.

I have seen the finest of welders with little or no formal training....

I have seen licensed Journeyman that I swear got their licenses out of a box of Cracker Jacks.

The biggest difference between the two - Pride in their work.

Hopefully somewhere in my ramblings you will find some wisdom that makes sense to you.

If not, hey I tried.

Very well put Black Wolf! That goes for any trade or profession.

[Black Wolf]

I did some checking into the BC apprenticeship system off of the government website, and it justs shows how different the two systems are, and how much we need to work together to find a common ground.

BC Welder "C" profile:
http://www.itabc.ca/forms/BC/profile/Welder%20Level%20C%20Profile.pdf

BC Welder "B" profile:
http://www.itabc.ca/forms/RS/profile/Welder%20B%20Profile.pdf

BC Welder "A" profile:
http://www.itabc.ca/forms/RS/profile/Welder%20A%20Profile.pdf

According to the website, both Level "B" and Level "A" welders are able to test for Journeyman status and Interprovincial Red Seal.

I did not find a section though that specified any one year as being either "Structural" "Pressure", or "Special Processes"

The Internet is a remarkable tool, if one chooses to use it.

I learned a lot about BC Apprenticeship today. Thanks.

Anyone wishing to check my information, please feel free.

http://www.itabc.ca/TrainingPrograms.php

[Black Wolf]

Here is a link to the Alberta system:

http://tradesecrets.gov.ab.ca/trades/pdf/trade_course_outlines/012_outline.pdf

Best advice I can give to you is to carefully read and assess the information provided, then see which program is a better "fit" for you in regards to location and area of the trade that is of interest to you.

If you need anything else, let me know.

Have a good night.

[pipeline Dan]

No, the standards for both schools are not the same.

It has been the wish of many to get the Western Provinces to standardize the Apprenticeship Systems, so that the workers are equally trained, and can travel between the provinces with equal recognition for their achievements

Specific to your question, I will tell you what I believe to be true and you can take it with a grain of salt:

Here goes:

I believe that Alberta has a wider range of industry, and therefore a wider range of job opprotunities and different experiences.

I believe that the Alberta Apprenticeship is geared towards meeting the needs of the industries here, and by nature, have to train and produce the higher quality workers required.

I believe that because of the variety of our industries and working conditions, you will see and experience things here, within the trade, that you will not see anywhere else in Canada.

I believe that this province turns out some very high quality welders, and with the Journeyman Certificate and Inter-Provincial Red Seal, our trades people are recognized and sought after Canada wide for their skill set.
The "B" Pressure Certification is just icing on the cake.

Now.... Having said all that, the following is needed:

I believe that no matter where you are located, or where you are trained, the ONLY limitation to your abilities and skills will be YOU. If you have the drive and desire to excel and be the best in your chosen field, it will show in your work.

I have seen the finest of welders with little or no formal training....

I have seen licensed Journeyman that I swear got their licenses out of a box of Cracker Jacks.

The biggest difference between the two - Pride in their work.

Hopefully somewhere in my ramblings you will find some wisdom that makes sense to you.

If not, hey I tried.

Thank you Black wolf! well said!!

[Black Wolf]

Hey Dan, You are more than welcome...

I really didn't do anything, just posted what I believe to be true and accurate.

As for the BC apprenticeship information I found last night, it just shows how far apart the two systems are.

I can see how people on the BC side tried to make their system all encompassing (sp?) and build in many of the tickets we require here in Alberta... problem being, that in order to work in Alberta, we have to produce said tickets upon demand and no-one will accept "It is part of my trade" as a substitute.

So after achieving "C" or "B" status the individual will have to re-take:
WHMIS
H2S
Confined Entry
etc etc

The courses here have an expiration date on them to get the worker to re-take the course after a specified period of time, and keep the information current.

I also do not know if the BC "PWP" - Pressure Welding Pipe - is recognized over here... It raises questions:

Does the PWP have an expiration?
Is it a general cert or does it have different processes like our "B" Pressure?

For myself, I do not belive that many will take the BC system to the "A" level. The way that it is structured, and explained, there seems to be no reason to, which is a shame because there is information that the BC guys will not be learning taking their apprenticeship to "B" level.

After reviewing the info and sleeping on it... The following still stands out for me in the Alberta system:

Alberta Journeyman status gives us all processes in all positions for plate & pipe. Practical welds we do are in line with current CWB (Canadian Welding Bureau) certifications, which allow us to cross over to the AWS welding certifications.

As for our "B" Pressure ticket - there are many different levels of certification within the ticket, and it expires annually so it must be re-tested for.

From what I have read and learned (and NO, I am NO EXPERT) I am confident that the Alberta system is well rounded and complete - and produces skilled tradespeople well in line with our American counterparts.

I find much of the BC system to be - while well intended - fluffed up and unnessessary. Specifically, after achieving Journeyman status and Interprovincial Red Seal, I do not see many individuals getting recognition for "A" status. It just looks like a fluffy thing that BC did to make their system "look" better than Alberta's....

With all the government websites and paperwork mumbo-jumbo set aside for a minute, I ask you for this:

Take a good long look at the industries that we have in Alberta, then a long look at the industries in BC....Then tell me that Journeyman from the two provinces have the same experience and skill sets, and are "equal"

I personally do not believe that you can.

Food for thought.

Best of luck with your decision, whatever it is.

[Maineiac]

No, the standards for both schools are not the same.

It has been the wish of many to get the Western Provinces to standardize the Apprenticeship Systems, so that the workers are equally trained, and can travel between the provinces with equal recognition for their achievements

Specific to your question, I will tell you what I believe to be true and you can take it with a grain of salt:

Here goes:

I believe that Alberta has a wider range of industry, and therefore a wider range of job opprotunities and different experiences.

I believe that the Alberta Apprenticeship is geared towards meeting the needs of the industries here, and by nature, have to train and produce the higher quality workers required.

I believe that because of the variety of our industries and working conditions, you will see and experience things here, within the trade, that you will not see anywhere else in Canada.

I believe that this province turns out some very high quality welders, and with the Journeyman Certificate and Inter-Provincial Red Seal, our trades people are recognized and sought after Canada wide for their skill set.
The "B" Pressure Certification is just icing on the cake.

Now.... Having said all that, the following is needed:

I believe that no matter where you are located, or where you are trained, the ONLY limitation to your abilities and skills will be YOU. If you have the drive and desire to excel and be the best in your chosen field, it will show in your work.

I have seen the finest of welders with little or no formal training....

I have seen licensed Journeyman that I swear got their licenses out of a box of Cracker Jacks.

The biggest difference between the two - Pride in their work.

Hopefully somewhere in my ramblings you will find some wisdom that makes sense to you.

If not, hey I tried.

Hi Jason: Thanks for keeping me straight. I'm am not from Canada,but just made an assumption that all standards within your provincials were the same. I appricate your input. I am learning alot reading all the different forums you fine folks have sent. Thanks again Arnold

[BigRed]

Most jobs in BC, along the lines of pulp mills and mines, only hire a welder with his 'A' ticket.

The 'B' ticket lets you write your Inter-provincial red seal for the main reason that you can go weld pipe in different provinces that require a red seal to test for a pressure ticket. I am not saying that just because after two years in BC's program, you are given journeymen status in AB, that BC's program is better. It's that in BC once you have your 'B' ticket you are free to weld all the pipe you want, so it makes sense that you should be able to weld pipe if you went to different provinces. They shoot to the same codes, sweet, sour, ect.

PWP's are a separate entity from the BC program. The boiler maker handles them. There are different PWP's for every procedure. Example; PWP7 is 6" and 2" schd 80 6G 6010 root, hot, 7018 fill, cap. This ticket will never expire as long as you have a signature in your log book within the last 6 months saying that you were using SMAW. This is weak because a guy could get his PWP7 then go weld structural with SMAW for ten years, and still be able to weld on pressure pipe. The down hand is PWP11, the tig is PWP10, and so on.

I have gone through the complete BC program and can say that it is top notch. I have only herd rumours about AB's program that I care not to repeat, because I have no firsthand knowledge of it being true. The one thing that I will say that speaks volume is that BC has the highest pass rate on the Red Seal exam, an exam that is an industry standard throughout Canada.

[c wagner]

The one thing that I will say that speaks volume is that BC has the highest pass rate on the Red Seal exam, an exam that is an industry standard throughout Canada.

That's very interesting to say the least, can you show us that in writing anywhere? (Government website or scanned paper copy)
I know lots of teachers and instructors that say their course is the best (welding or otherwise) so it may have been one of those statements to "pump a guy up" if you know what I mean.

[Black Wolf]

We are just going to keep going round and round over this....

Big Red seems to be well versed in the BC system...

BC Hardwire seems to have gained a lot of knowledge and confidence in the last week or so which I find hilariously amusing. Here is his previous offering to the forum:

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/showthread.php?t=13815

Now, between that thread and this one, I have done a lot of research into the BC apprenticeship system, and have dis-spelled a number of myths and mis-understandings that I had, and have admitted to same.

When I have stated MY opinion, it has been well acknowledged as just that - opinion

I have tried to lets the facts speak for themselves, and post up links to credible information so that all can read and understand for themselves....

And after all of that, we have 2 members on here making baseless accusations...

Big Red:

"I have only heard rumours about the AB's system that I care not to repeat, because I have no first hand knowledge of it being true. The one thing that I will say that speaks volume is that BC has the highest pass rate on the Red Seal exam, an exam that is an industry standard throughout Canada."

BC_Hardwire:

" You are 100% correct! I am in my "B" level as we speak , I was talking to my instructor and he said not only is our system going to be nation wide (its in progress) but possibly global! USA is considering BC's System too.... I encourage you guys to look into this as my instructor is in the process and any more info on this would be appreciated. And ya "A" level is required at almost aall pulp mills, Dams and so 4th. I was told not to bother getting my IP cuz in time BC welders wont need it! Big changes are among us... "


Pretty simple boys... Put Up or Shut Up. Quotable facts Talk, BS walks.

If nothing else, you two are good for comedy relief. ROFLMFAO.

[JTMcC]

The USA certainly isn't considering the BC system or any other.
The U.S. government has nothing to do with welder training, qualifications, codes ect.
Private industry handles those matters just fine here. As it should be.

You may now resume your interprovidential squabble. Otherwise known as a Canadian Civil War, waged on the harsh, unforgiving battlefields of the Miller Interweb Forum.

JTMcC.;)

[Black Wolf]

The USA certainly isn't considering the BC system or any other.

Now you know why I am laughing. Well, that and the other stuff I highlighted.

Isn't much to squabble about JT - any competent and sane person can see the facts as they are.

I came back in here and removed my comments regarding my first hand experience with some of the BC "Journeyman" I have worked with. I am trying to keep this discussion factual and "above the belt".

[Cornerstone]

The USA certainly isn't considering the BC system or any other.
The U.S. government has nothing to do with welder training, qualifications, codes ect.
Private industry handles those matters just fine here. As it should be.

You may now resume your interprovidential squabble. Otherwise known as a Canadian Civil War, waged on the harsh, unforgiving battlefields of the Miller Interweb Forum.

JTMcC.;)

Man, you sure make me laugh. Thanks again..."Canadian Civil War" haha too funny.

[pipeline Dan]

Now you know why I am laughing.

Isn't much to squabble about JT - any competent and sane person can see the facts as they are.

I haven't heard any baseless rumours about their system, I have just worked with some of their "Journeyman" first hand.... and I can see why they are "out of work" and their province doesn't want them anymore. :eek:

Maybe the good ones stay there, and we just get the dregs. ;)

Oh crap, now I started it. :D

There is great welders on both side of the wild west & I have worked with poor welders from both sides of the wild west, with that said, we are top shelf when you talk about our welding as a trade here. We just have to have better skilled welders because of the oilpatch/pipelines we have here, you have to otherwise people will get hurt/die and then there will be $hit to pay. This is not to say that welders from other places arent great welders, I have worked with guys from BC, Sask, MB, Ont, Texas, even "Newfies" that where great welders, but they will all agree that we have alot of paper, tests, and blood sweat and tears to go through here in Alberta before we can have a Alberta ticket and even harder a "B" ticket here. I am very proud of being an Alberta ticket welder.

[blazin454]

some very interesting and useful information. thanks to all who have contributed. i can deffinately understand that albertas industry and bcs are dufferentex. oil patch vs a pulpmill or mine. i guess one benefit of bc is that you can get your ip once youve got your b ticket and apparently alot of guys do it to make more money in less time which doesnt seem like a bad idea. it seems like here alot of ppl kinda take the "shortcut" route but they may also be the type of ppl who arent as good as they should be. myself i looked into the self paced at first so i could go in learn the weld, do the weld, and be done... after thinking about it though ive decided to take up the whole 7 months and not rush anything as i want to learn as much as i possibly can. i dont want to be one of the guys who you guys talk about when saying "a journeyman who can make **** stick to a wool blanket" i want to be as knowledgable and skilled in the trade as my mind and body will allow. as far as schooling in bc or alberta now there deffinately is alot more money in alberta so it would be easier but i think i might stick with what im doing and take my c ticket here (even though its useless in ab) and see what kind of doors that will open for me then maybe head over to alberta after. and even though the c ticket is not recognized in alberta having taken the 7 months and learning what i will learn i believe that will give me a much stronger foundation to build off of as well as making me worth more to my employer. i will say if the right oppertunity comes up in alberta i will most likely take it but i think ill jsut keep going down the road im on for now and see where it takes me....
thanks again to everyone who has contributed and sorry for making such a long post ahah... have a good one guys

P.S. anyone know of good companies to try to get on as a welders helper/ apprentice feel free to let me know

[Black Wolf]

Sounds like you have your head screwed on straight, and have a plan laid out that works for you.

As for the BC "welder" (that I work with and referred to in the other thread) that cannot make Sh!t stick to a wool blanket, well, he has told me that he is level "C" but has not shown me any paperwork yet. I don't think that he is much of an Alberta Journeyman Millwright either, so I am thinking his failure to impress me on any level is due to the individual, not the training.

I removed my off colour comment regarding BC "Journeyman" because it was below the belt, but it seems that Dan still quoted it before I edited the post.

No, I do not think that poorly of all Journeyman coming out of BC. The individuals I have worked with were not great, but I do not view them as indicative of the program as a whole.

Who knows, maybe things have changed a little, and now AB Apprenticeship and Industry Training will recognize your "C" ticket. I'll do some snooping around tomorrow and find the number to the office in Grande Prairie, and you can talk with them yourself if you like.

Welcome to the trade.

Have a good night.

[blazin454]

so ive heard saskatchewan is going to be booming and ive heard it already is.. anyone able to shed any light on that? the only concern i do have with staying in bc for now is the money.... i have an 18 month old son and am now sure if i will be able to afford it, it will be tough. i realize thats a consequence of starting off in a new trade BUT 15 dollars an hour can be like what? 22 and hour in alberta??? (up north) can anyone provide me with information as to the wages a new guy such as myself could expect in alberta or saskatchewan? for the next 8 months (until im done school) im only going to be making 13 an hour and thats just crazy!! i made more than that when i was like 13 (working in the bush) i am really worried im going to get myself into a financial rut i wont be able to get out of

[Black Wolf]

The financial crunch of apprenticeship is a real burden to bear, and believe me, I do feel your pain on this one. Luckily, here in Alberta, institutions like NAIT (Northern Alberta Institute of Technology) offer up the Welding Program through Distance Delivery where the apprentice does not have to take the time off of work, but is able to earn while he/she learns. When the modules and exams are completed, the apprentice heads down to Edmonton for Theory and Practical exams for both NAIT and the Apprenticeship Board.

As for wages, each "year" of apprenticeship is clearly defined by a percentage of the Journeyman Wage. The shop I am at is slightly lower that the average shop in GP (Not complaining) Journeyman wage is $33/hr vs $36/hr in town.

My 1st yr apprentice is making 65% or so of that, so he is getting around $21 or $22/hr - something like that.

Funny enough for this topic - He is from BC - Valemont to be exact, but he came to Alberta to work and learn. Two of his cousins are also here from McBride - One has been here over a year and is now a 2nd yr Millwright, the other - fresh out of High School, started last week.

I cannot give you information about wages in other provinces or even other towns - just what I know from Grande Prairie.

[lynx_welding]

what is all this about that bc schooling is going to be set all across canada and why is it that all alberta tickets are the most recognized in canada. when you go to a job in another province you have a welder that has a inter provincial and an alberta B ticket (Pipe ticket for those who dont know) you know you have a qualified welder. the only thing that i have seen as a standard across canada is the money grabbing Cwb ticket (which stole my 400 and change)

[Cornerstone]

Well hello Lynx!. Haven't seen ya around(on website) for awhile. Good to see ya back and kickin' some dust too! Yeah, that CWB is something else, I did my test close to two years ago and I've yet to see the actual ticket. You get this sheet of paper to show the QC guy on jobs and if he's green, he'll look at you like you're trying to pull one over on him. Then this 90 day thing to keep it alive and if you expire on that you do the check test. $150 please and thank you. I'm sure the CWB has its merits but all this? Remember when you got your "B"?. How many times did you pay for a check test after that or to keep your ticket alive, work in a shop quick before it expires.

[lynx_welding]

long time no see yeah the B isw good for life only my small bore every two years at 100 a pop but i'd rather weld pipe than structual!

[albertawelder]

It's not the quality of the school you have to worry about, but the province in which you want to work. I came to Alberta a few years ago and found out the hard way that apprenticeships dont transfer between provinces. If you come to AB from a BC system and you are not yet a journeyman you will have a hard time getting any of your hours or experience to transfer over.

An alberta B ticket has nothing to do with the BC courses. The letters A, B, and C in BC refer to the level of their welding programs you have completed. The alberta B ticket is basicly a pipe welding test to certify work on pressure vessels/piping after you have attained journeyman status. You can only obtain an Alberta "B" ticket if you have successfully completed the 3 year alberta apprenticeship program to become a jopurneyman or if you are a journeyman with a red seal coming in from any other province.

If you go to school in BC, you will have to find an employer in Alberta who is willing to hire you, that employer will have to indenture you as an alberta apprentice and if that employer signs off you can challenge exams, both theory and practical for your 1st,2nd or 3rd years, providing you have the recorded hours.

Many Alberta employers will not hire you if you are not an indentured alberta apprentice.

The things you learn in AB or BC courses will not be exactly the same, but most of your skills and abilities are learned on the job, not in 8 weeks of school every year. Ulitmately it often depends on the work you have experience with, not the school you went to. For example a welder working in a MIG shop for 3 years can go to either ab or bc for school but he still wont be as good a stick or tig welder as the guy who goes into work everyday doing stick or tig and has never been to school.

So just do your school wherever you intend to work and it should work out well. also the AB apprenticeship website (www.tradesecrets.gov.ab.ca)is fairly useful.

Best of luck to you

[BC_Hardwire]

Ok , ya sorry about that system change crap !!! it was just a rumour i had heard and was hoping 1 of you might of heard something .. s o r r y wolf, and lynx I didnt mean to imply anything.. But ya i agree that taking your schooling where you plan to work and live is the best choice. Thanx and sorry for that rumor!:confused:

[blazin454]

well ive heard the course here is supposed to be pretty good and that i will learn alot.. i really wish i could be an apprentice though then i could learn more before i even get to school...

[Black Wolf]

You do not have to be an "apprentice" to begin to learn.

Open a book.....

Watch a video....

Find someone you know that can weld and ask for lessons...

There are MANY things that you can do to learn about welding, and the manipulation of metal.

The only thing holding you back is you.

BC_Hardwire - sorry if I was a harda$$. Rumours cause a lot of trouble. When discussing apprenticeships and government programs, best to keep things factual.

Everything is good on my end.

Have a good night.

[BC_Hardwire]

Hey Guys, I am currently working on my 3 G (1/8 land, 3/32 gap, 6010 1/8 root and hot) 7018 1/8 cap I keep getting a bit of undercut on my cap , ive tried slowing down and pausing more on the edges .. .... my question is what exactly does the inductance control do, I have it at 50% ? ! ? any advice or tips I can get rid of the undercut if i run colder but i want it to be a tight cap, I am running it at 124 amps on my cap. Thanx for any tips fellas! :rolleyes:

[Hillbilly69]

I have heard this debate. Most people arguing who is better lack knowledge of both systems. The training between AB and BC is almost identical. The Alberta B is identical to a test called the BC P100 and are recipricated between both provinces. In AB ASME certified companies have too come up with there own weld procedures (Which any welder holding above mentioned AB "B" or P100 can test too). The BCSA has the same system for ASME cerified companies have there own welding procedures and they also have another option 14 Prequalified Weld Procedures (PWP's) have been tested to meet the the requirements of ASME and are owned by the province of BC. The "authorised inspection agencies" who administer the ASME boiler code are the BCSA and ABSA. How they test and or retest is entirely at there discretion. The BCSA does not have a expirey on the PWP tests as long as the welder stays current (uses the procedure in the last 6 months) taken word for word from ASME. The BCSA however does have an expirey on the BC P100 2 yrs exactly the same as the Alberta "B". So lets stop arguing over who is better and tell the Alberta Training Authority to stop bringing in so called welders with no qualifications because they say there aren't any Canadian welders available. This is wrong. The training authorities have built little empires and are perpetuating this myth while cutting wages by allowing foreign workers to bypass requirements which Canadians are held too. The provincial governments, training authorities, and safety authorities in both provices should be held too task.
Stop the fighting.

[Black Wolf]

Stop the fighting.

Ummmm.......Who's Fighting? This thread has been dead for over 4 months.

[Hillbilly69]

Just explaining the facts how the two systems work - cutting through the myths perpetuated by the money grabbing training authorities of this country.
(No more wage cutting from foreign workers)

Short and sweet if you want to work in AB apprentice in AB - If you want to work in BC apprentice in BC.

Maybe we can have this debate in SK were all the work is going to be?

You're only as good as you last xray weld.

I work in both AB and BC.

[m.k.swelding]

No matter where you end up your only best teacher is first hand experance in the feild. what ever place you may choose will give you the tools you need, whatever you do with them from there is all up to you. Good Luck with whatever happens.

[c wagner]

Maybe we can have this debate in SK were all the work is going to be?


Well some guys are busy and some aren't, it's hard to tell what's happening around here. I do agree... this debate would be better with a group of guys consuming beverages. :D

[Black Wolf]

I have heard this debate. Most people arguing who is better lack knowledge of both systems. The training between AB and BC is almost identical.

Ummm... NO, it's not. Please review page 1 and all the links posted regarding both the Alberta and BC Apprenticeship systems. I did all the research to find the information in "Black and White" to END all the misunderstanding.

Just explaining the facts how the two systems work - cutting through the myths......

No, you are not. You are rambling on, offering up your personal opinion as fact instead of publishing links to reputable information.

If you are offering your personal opinion, then say so... I do. I acknowledge fully when I am making statements for myself - see earlier in this thread. Members can then choose to read or ignore my statements, or at the very least take what is typed with a grain of salt.

If I am referencing reputable information to contradict members like yourself that make a bunch of bold statements without support, I then also step up to the plate with links to the supporting information, so that any member interested can review the information for themselves, and it can be discussed.

This thread was discussed at length and laid to rest a while ago. These same issues came up recently (with different members involved) in another similiar thread, and again it was discussed and laid to rest.

If you have something to add, then by all means, as a member of this forum, it is your right to do so, but please be kind enough to post up links where I can go and research your claims for myself....

True, Factual Informatin is always welcome. Everything else is discarded and left behind.

My apologies if my post is rude or stand off-ish... This topic is an old wound.

[Hillbilly69]

Asme pressure welder worked in both provinces just explaining the system.

Too bad ur so upset.

If that AB "B" in your back pocket helps you pass that next Xray good on you.

I'll just spend my time raking in the cash, or maybe I'll go visit our fine friends in SK. There not so uptight.

[Black Wolf]

Nope. Not upset. I deal in facts, not fiction.

In any event, you missed the point so it really doesn't matter.

Have a Good Night.

Hope you enjoy SK.

[blackbeard's welding]

along the same lines, and if it has already been discussed im sorry.i heard this week at work from some apprentices, that the red seal is going to be discontinued this year or the next. the way it was explained to me was that this was for those getting their j-ticket through apprentiship. no need to take the second set of exams at the end of the course. the ticket would be recognized the same as a red seal in alta/sask.(one step closer to stanardization?) if this was talked about already or im misinformed, i apologize.

[c wagner]

Blackbeard I heard something similar to that on the news awhile back. To my understanding it wasn't a done deal at that point but they may have finalized things since then.

[Black Wolf]

Blackbeard,

I hadn't heard that, but now you've got me scratching my head.....

I don't really see any inconveniece in sitting down and writing one more exam to get the InterProvincial Red Seal, but maybe some do.

Standardization would be the ultimate goal, but I don't understand how they can junk the entire program just because two Provinces decide to get along.

How then, would a new Journeyman from AB or SK work in any other province?

I'll do some snooping around on my end with my contacts @ NAIT.

Have a Good Night.

[blackbeard's welding]

i dont know if the journeyman ticket becomes recognized across canada then, or just in the western provinces. in my opinion the the basic pipe tickets should be standard as well. the test are exactly the same (at least up to small bore) why do i have to register my ticket (and pay another fee) in the province next to the on i tested in. that is just a money grab i think

[c wagner]

I missed the boat with this comment completely so I erased it.
Here is a link to the news story: http://dcnonl.com/article/id31828

[Hillbilly69]

Thanks for the link wagner

If I could figure out how to do links I'd post one from the boilermaker.ca website that listed all the the reciprical tickets from each province like the AB "B" and the BC P100.

The tax grab thing is what reallly ****es me off. You have to do this F3/F4 AB B or smililar test before you can say go TIG weld 9% chrome? And to top it all off they then make the thing expire on top of it. Don't get me wrong the F3/F4 procedures is the lifeblood of any pipefitter but what does it have to do with TIG welding or FCAW pressure vessels or GMAW/FCAW pipe spools or F3 downhand pipeline? The last time I checked the AB "B" was issued above 27,000 times at $130 a crack. Now that's a money grab. Never mind all the other reciprical tickets listed on boilermaker.ca. Don't get me wrong AB has got good welders but if you issue 27,000 tickets don't turn around and tell me how elite you have to be to get one. ABSA has come up with all this *** on there own it's not even part of ASME boiler pressure vessel code.

Freezing my *** off in Edmonton.

Cheers

[Black Wolf]

Hey Hillbilly,

I'll give you a leg up on this one:

http://www.boilermakers.ca/intro.php

If nothing else, the music ROCKS.

Posting links is quite easy:

1) When you are on a page that you would like to link to, go up to the address bar (http://blahblahblah) and click your right mouse button.

2) The address will highlight in Blue, and a drop down menu will appear.

3) Select "copy" from the drop down menu to save the address.

4) Return to an active post where you would like to place link and click right mouse button.

5) Select "Paste" from the drop down menu and you address will appear in your post.

[Black Wolf]

More off of that site:

http://www.absa.ca/

http://www.boilermakers.ca/content/index.php/welder-testing-hyperlinks/43-boilermakers-links

http://www.boilermakers.ca/content/index.php/boilermakers-links/46-trade-related-links

If you need any help posting up info, shoot me a PM - I'd be glad to help out.

Have a Good Night.

[Hillbilly69]

Thanks I'll try it

[Hillbilly69]

http://www.boilermakers.ca/content/index.php/dispatch/travel-cards/how-to-get-your-alberta-b-ticket (http://www.boilermakers.ca/content/index.php/dispatch/travel-cards/how-to-get-your-alberta-b-ticket)


Hope this works

[Black Wolf]

Link works perfectly.

Thank You for the information.

Have a Good Day.

[pipeline Dan]

So does this mean that if your from Alberta you have to have the hrs and schooling before you get a welding ticket but if your from other parts of canada then all you have to do is a weld test???

Hillbilly we use to have the best welders in Canada! There still are a bunch of great welders here but the welding has gone down hill here in the last couple of years, which is really to bad. When I started out in the trade it was quite something to have your "B" ticket. Not so much anymore, why pay me a $100 per hr when they can bring welders from other parts of canada for $65 per hr and fudge their tickets in to the contracts:( I did a job for suncore this past summer, I was told my so called "fitter" had both his "B" and fitter ticket from out east, which was odd to me because he couldnt weld worth $hit but yet he had a "B" ticket?? Yet he was making the same rate that I was?? well I just got a call from him the other day and that he was back in Alberta working with his truck again, he was getting $65(no supply)per hr and was happy welding CWB again! and that when pipe got busy again he might go back to pipe, thats the kind of stuff that is going on here. I have even been told by other guys that when Ledcor ask for your tickets dont fax them in because they where using the numbers to bring in new welders and have been caught a couple times doing this.The fact they gave out 27,000 tickets doesnt mean anything other then the more guys they push through the more money in their pockets, I would like to know out of those 27,000 how many where ticketed welders?

[Hillbilly69]

You need trade qualification and red seal (whatever hours that are required from your area) and then do the applicable reciprical test or AB "B".

[dmk welding]

Interesting thread here about the pressure ticket game in the West.

I apprenticed in Ab years ago and just finally got my "B" in Nov of '07, so by no means am I a veteran at pipe welding although I think I've come a long way since my test day.

The way it all works with testing has always frustrated me. I agree, what does an F3 F4 ticket have anything to do with a GMAW or TIG ticket??? Money grab is all!!! Another ridiclous fact, I think anyways, is the stainless TIG test done on CARBON pipe! Is the the aluminum test done on carbon as well? I'm guessing not, I hope not anyways...I have my SS TIG but am yet to actually weld a SS joint! I don't feel that I am really qualified to weld SS with TIG...carbon maybe...ridiculous.

Here's another fact...in Sk you don't need your J ticket to pressure weld...just enough hours in the trade and the ability to pass a test on a couple of pipe coupons. It also cost me like $120 per ticket to transfer from Ab to Sk! Oh well...got to have it to survive these days unless you wanna be a $65/hr CWB scab.

[DPwelder]

There is no welding apprenticeship in Canada, its just work exp.+training and tests.5 yrs pipe welding exp. is better than 5 yrs flux core flat when it comes to pressure welding.

As for training itself, bc has longer and more extensive training then does alberta, there for better training.

The most extensive pressure welding training is in Quebec with 2 full years of full time training, more than 6 times the hours of bc.

But, reality and perception are two different beasts, the perception of an employer being the most important, making alberta training the best.

[nfinch86]

DMK. Welding;:confused:

A $65.00 Hr. SCAB ?? :rolleyes:

Care To Elaborate !!:eek:

........Norm :)

[nfinch86]

[QUOTE=DPwelder;189335]There is no welding apprenticeship in Canada, its just work exp.+training and tests.E]

Who pumped you full ....are you running on what you heard, because you obiviously didn't read it...:rolleyes:...

Reggie;

Are You saying there is Recognized Apprenticeship for Weldors ?
So If I was 20yrs. old again, and wanted to become a Weldor, Then Where
Would I go to apply for this Weldor Apprenticeship ? :confused:

Or Is It A Sub-Trade taken during an Apprenticeship ?? :)

................... Norm :)

[Black Wolf]

Are you serious Norm?

If you are, you must have been living under a rock for the last six months, or have forgotten all the threads that you contributed to that involved this topic.

Good Grief - No wonder JT is laughing at all of us North of the border.....

Every Province has an Apprenticeship system of one form or another.

Also each province has a list of Compulsory Trades, and Elective Trades.

Here are the lists for Alberta and BC - have a look for your self...

Alberta:

http://tradesecrets.gov.ab.ca/index.html?page=trades_occupations.asp

BC:

http://www.itabc.ca/Page496.aspx

And since I looked it up before...

Ontario:

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/tcu/employmentontario/training/certification.html

Welding is Compulsory in Alberta and BC, but is elective in Ontario.

We HAVE discussed this before Norm.... Your memory must be getting bad.

[pipeline Dan]

wow, here we go again!!!!:rolleyes:

[Wicked one]

MY CAT HAS WORMS DA_MM_It!!!

[c wagner]

Hahaha!!!!:D

[JTMcC]

I don't laugh at anybody, except maybe the stupid govt beaurocrats that crave contol and power, and have put a system in place that confuses even the people who have worked in it for years.
Govt slugs don't want to actually produce anything benefitial to society, they only want to increase their power, influence and budget.
In thier pursuit of that dream they manage to make everything cost more, and make life harder for the dude that's just trying to make an honest living.
My political opinion only.

JTMcC

[Cornerstone]

I don't laugh at anybody, except maybe the stupid govt beaurocrats that crave contol and power, and have put a system in place that confuses even the people who have worked in it for years.
Govt slugs don't want to actually produce anything benefitial to society, they only want to increase their power, influence and budget.
In thier pursuit of that dream they manage to make everything cost more, and make life harder for the dude that's just trying to make an honest living.
My political opinion only.

JTMcC"..that confuses even the people who have worked in it for years." Reminds me of the saying, "chaos is cash" which sometimes rules supreme in our government's.

[nfinch86]

Jason , When I started My Apprenticeship as an Ironworker 35yrs. ago, I Don't remember Welding in Strucural or Ornamental as a Separate Trade ?

Even To-day on the list ( Link ) you put up in Ontario it is Voluntary Certification to be -- Industrial Electrician
-- Industrial Millwright
-- Ironworker , Ornamental & Structural

And Weldor !!

.............. Norm :)

[davedarragh]

Hey Norm: Looks like our Coyotes have filled chapter 11, and the owner of Blackberry wants to buy and move the team to Ontario. Hang on to the puck, it might be a collector's item.:D

Dave

[nfinch86]

Hey Norm: Looks like our Coyotes have filled chapter 11, and the owner of Blackberry wants to buy and move the team to Ontario. Hang on to the puck, it might be a collector's item.:D

Dave

Ya Dave; The Owner on the Blackberry is from Hamilton, On. ( I Think )

So there is talk around here about Hamilton getting an N.H.L. Franchise,
Finally after all these yrs. !! The New York Rangers got Hamilton's N.H.L. Team back in the 20's I beleave over a dispute about playoff monies owed !
The " Hamilton Tigers " were one of the Original N.H.L. Teams !!

So Yes My Phoenix Coyotes Puck will be put away for safe keeping !!

PS. I am a Hamiltonian, Born And Raised there !

..................... Norm :)

[davedarragh]

Norm: The Bulldogs going to get along with the "Desert Dogs?" If the NHL approves it (still up in the air), I'm sure he'll re-name the franchise. Either way, I'll follow the story, and the team.

Gretzky will be real close to home!:D

Dave

[nfinch86]

Dave , You seem very well vearsed in this area, Most people around here would'nt Know the Name of Hamilton's A.H.L. Team !! :D

They have tried so long and so hard to get an N.H.L. Team back here, that's why Copps was built back in eary 80's, Now It's Too Small 18,000 seats I think? Plus they'll need many more corporate Boxes ! Then There is the issue of Teritorial Rights we are in between Buffalo & Toronto, there has to be 75mi.
either way, and there is Not !!

................ Norm :)

[davedarragh]

Norm: I was unaware of that one. Must be an Ontario "rule?" As the Rangers and the Islanders are both in NY.

Right now, Bettman has said the NHL will control the team, as the '09-10 schedules need to be out for print by August.

The Bulldogs are the Habs farm club, right?

Remember, I've got distant relatives in the Hall of Fame.:D

Dave

[nfinch86]

Yes Dave It's a league thing; Remember how big NY. is !! :eek:
Yes the Bulldogs are the Farm Team of Montreal !
Also to get a team inside the 75Mi. Radius is to Pay Millions for the Rights !

.................. Norm :)

[c wagner]

So did all the hockey talk need to get discussed in this topic?
For that matter did it need to be posted in the open forum?

Sorry not trying to be a jerk just wondering why things need to get so far off topic.