Aluminum Mig?

[SinGear]

Ok I need some imput from you guys I'll try to keep it short. I'm a engineer at a cabinet company so by trade I'm a wood guy, but by passion I'm more of a metal guy taking every chance I can get to either melt some metal or attempt to learn something new.

That being said my work pretty much gives me first look at anything metal we need to produce (side cash $$ ) So when one of my PM's came to me and said hey can you do Aluminum, I responded as usual with No, but I'll learn, what do you need?

So I jumped on-line pulled pricing for material as well as a spool gun and gave them a bid. Ok mental note at this point make sure your looking at the right **** spool gun when your pulling prices!

I'll skip all the details and put it this way, I will be taking delivery of a brand new Miller 180 with spool gun on Thursday, as well as loosing my *** on the side job profit, but hey I got a new welder so really who can complain.

So fellas I need Aluminum tips and tricks if ya got them please. Now I know from reading the forum that I may have just put myself into the catagory of "that ***#@le that bought a welder and just got on here to find out how to use it."

I just wanna say this about that. I'm not formally trained, all I know I have learned from others, reading, or doing it wrong the first couple times, but one thing I am not is scared of a challenge nor will I ever pass up a chance to learn something new. So look at me more as hungry for knowledge from experienced and seasoned craftsmen rather then the retard that likes the pretty blue light.

Thanks guys I look forward to any and all input.

Aaron

*** Update ************************************************** *******'

Ok quick verbal update on the Aluminum MIG, first off thanks to all of you guys who put in your 2 cents worth of tips and tricks although the pics may not show it they really helped. I snapped some pics last night uh or rather this morning at about 1 as I finished, so you'll forgive me if they’re not posted till this afternoon when I get off work. But just a few tips I learned:

#1 Where Mechanix Gloves have served me well for mild steel they are not thick enough to handle freshly welded aluminum.

#2 Neither is Duct tape wrapped around said gloves (it just melts to your skin)

#3 If you think your gonna need a couple tips to learn, better get 10

#4 If the bend the wire that fused to the tip just right it makes a nice Christmas ornament (guess what the family is getting this year, it's homemade)

#5 last but not least one thing I didn't learn, how the heck do you make an aluminum weld look pretty, if you did a hack job laying it? (Oh and the answer is NOT an angle grinder)

Thanks again guys I'll get the pics up this afternoon so I can get some feedback on how I’m doing.

********Update here are the picture inks*************************

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn265/aoltersdorf/Welding/IMG_0374.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn265/aoltersdorf/Welding/IMG_0372.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn265/aoltersdorf/Welding/IMG_0366.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn265/aoltersdorf/Welding/IMG_0363.jpg

Ok there they are lemme know what you guys think, I did post the best looking one because I didn't need anybody to tell me the other looked like a$$ I could see it haha

[aametalmaster]

The biggest thing with alum is clean. Remove all coatings down to shiny metal, some guys clean their parts with acetone. Your spoolgun will need to be pushed along the weld from which way thats up to you. Here is a little more info on that. http://www.thefabricator.com/AluminumWelding/AluminumWelding_Article.cfm?ID=554
So grab some scrap and practice...Bob

[grey]

g'mornin.

You will have to wait for others more knowledgeable than I.
In the meantime, you might want to give more info about the material to be welded - size, compositition, ultimate purpose, ect...

will this be TIG weld ? Why, or why not?

[SinGear]

Thanks for the Article Bob I appreciate it I'll look it over, from what I've read so far I think I'll be trying a push.

Grey, good call thanks.

I will be using a Miller 180 w/spool gun running Argon welding .12 Aliminum Square Tube to .12 2x2 angle both 6061. My saving grace for this project is the welds will be hidden in the finished project, however I still want them looking as good as a visible finish weld.

[hankj]

I suggest you use 4043, at least at first. It seems to run nicer for me than 5356.

Cut some coupons from the stock you'll be using to practice on. Aluminum MIG rocks! Use the door chart settings to get a starting point, and go from there.

As the work gets hot, you'll need to travel faster. On thinner stuff, you may have to stop for a cool-down or you'll burn through.

Try it - you'll like it!

Hank

[SinGear]

Thanks a lot for the tips Hank, I get the Welder on Thursday according to the tracking info so I'll try to snap some pics Thursday night of my welds so you guys can take a look and let me know how I'm doing. I got plenty of scrap to practice on seeing as how it was actually gonna cost me $2 more to get 6' as oppossed to getting 24' :confused: go figure.

Thanks again,

Aaron

[Broccoli1]

Thanks for the Article Bob I appreciate it I'll look it over, from what I've read so far I think I'll be trying a push.

Grey, good call thanks.

I will be using a Miller 180 w/spool gun running Argon welding .12 Aliminum Square Tube to .12 2x2 angle both 6061. My saving grace for this project is the welds will be hidden in the finished project, however I still want them looking as good as a visible finish weld.

1/8" Angle to 16g 1" Tubing:)

Pic is mis-leading as the Sprout wanted to build a Shark Cage so we turned the benches on their ends.

What I found with AL is that it really needs to be dialed in on the Machine- not much room to play with technique at the Gun like Steel because once you pull the rigger it is GO time.

Although Torch angle does play an important role

[Broccoli1]

So I jumped on-line pulled pricing for material as well as a spool gun and gave them a bid. Ok mental note at this point make sure your looking at the right **** spool gun when your pulling prices!
Aaron

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/wire_feeders/spoolmate_100_series/

I hope you ordered this one.

[SinGear]

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/wire_feeders/spoolmate_100_series/

I hope you ordered this one.

Yeah in the long run I ordered that one, but when I price the side job I was planning on picking up a spool gun for my buddies Miller 185 which will not accept the 100 series it only takes the 3035 Series which starts at about 600 and some change, hence the screw it attutude and buying myself a whole setup.

It's ok it was time to step up from the Cheapo Depot Lincoln anyway.

Nice looking project on the tables good job, like I told Hank I'll post some pics of my AL adventure Thursday or Friday.

[Sberry]

As an amateur with alum I find I really got to keep an eye on the parameters, right angle, speed, Like the old timer says, stop before you burn thru.

[SinGear]

As an amateur with alum I find I really got to keep an eye on the parameters, right angle, speed, Like the old timer says, stop before you burn thru.


That seems to be the the majority, where with mild MIG any monkey can pretty much do it however getting into Aluminum it's more the skill then the machine.

[flop-a-welder]

I would say that learning by doin is the best way to learn. And there is no shame in asking questions. **** man there is always someone better, right? That being said, I would definately use 4043 .035 wire to start with, you can buy this at most places that sell welding equipment. I would reccomend that you also use a darker lens in your helmet because aluminum lets off a much brighter arc than steel. Also wear sleeves or you will cook your arms. Remeber this with aluminum... everthing starts with "A" use Ac current, use Argon 100%, when welding you want to hold the same Arc length, the same Aim, and the same Angle when welding. Now i will explain a little further about the aim arc and angle. When you go to start your weld Aim into the center of the seam almost straight into it to get even penetration. NOw give your welder a Angle of about 15 degrees to push the weld across the weld seam. It is important to maintain these two elements to lay the pretty pretty aluminum welds. When you pull the trigger you should have a quarter inch stick out from the tip to the material. First practise running the arc and getting used to it on butt joints then practise a few joints that are similar to the ones you are going to weld. I would also say that if you know of a shop that does aluminum mig maybe ask if you can watch them run a few welds. I have found that it is always better to see it done than have it explained to you. Good luck man cant wait to see your stuff.

[safetydave]

1/8" Angle to 16g 1" Tubing:)

Pic is mis-leading as the Sprout wanted to build a Shark Cage so we turned the benches on their ends.

What I found with AL is that it really needs to be dialed in on the Machine- not much room to play with technique at the Gun like Steel because once you pull the rigger it is GO time.

Although Torch angle does play an important role

YO broc, what are you doing making shark cages? and also can WE-I see a close up of the welds on your cages and also what type of tubing you using for the cages?:D

[safetydave]

Singear, congrats on the new toys and welcome to the forum.

As for welding Aluminum it is a different skill level involved with this and if I was you I would get the welding calculators from Miller they will give you a refernce point for your machine you then would need to fine tune it from there as to what your welds look like and how it feels when your welding, also I would take some of the parts your planing to use and practice on them to also get the feel of what will happen when welding them.

As for the thickness of material your using I'm guessing it's real thin stuff? I ask this because I normally weld 1/8"-3/8", so with it being thinner your going to have to move faster as not to burn through but yet still get good penetration on the material, but by practicing with the parts before hand you can see what and what not to do.

You shouldn't have alot of spatter if any and your machine is set right and NO BURN THROUGH either, also make sure your material is very clean of any contaminations which will also make for nice welds, and make sure your aiming-pointing your wire into the center of where your material meets and keep it there so it will flow into the center of the weld keeping your angle of your nozzle at 15 degrees with about 1/4" of stick out on your wire if you have less then you might short out your tips alot and if more then you will get alot of spatter becuase you will be taking your gas away from your welding area.

This is what I can think of off the top of my head right now so if this will help good and I'll keep on eye on this post to hopefully give some more info.

[Broccoli1]

YO broc, what are you doing making shark cages? and also can WE-I see a close up of the welds on your cages and also what type of tubing you using for the cages?:D

The "cages'" are gone- just some simple bench frames for a friend- he is going to make a wood slat seat for them.

He has a trailer with a rooftop deck- rated for 20 adults but we're trying to keep the over all weight down.

I still have some stock so I'll try to get some shots tomorrow.

I used a Craftsman 12" Compound Mitre saw to cut the AL

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921235000P

Wear ear protection, long sleeves and of course Eye protection- shoots little pieces of AL all over:)

[SinGear]

I would reccomend that you also use a darker lens in your helmet because aluminum lets off a much brighter arc than steel. Also wear sleeves or you will cook your arms. Remeber this with aluminum... everthing starts with "A" use Ac current, use Argon 100%, when welding you want to hold the same Arc length, the same Aim, and the same Angle when welding. .

Good points thanks man, kinda funny I was just thinking last night I needed to get on here and ask if I needed to be welding with a darker shade. So nated I'll make sure to adjust my lid before I start.

[SinGear]

As for the thickness of material your using I'm guessing it's real thin stuff? I ask this because I normally weld 1/8"-3/8", so with it being thinner your going to have to move faster as not to burn through but yet still get good penetration on the material, but by practicing with the parts before hand you can see what and what not to do.

Dave,

Yeah my material is 1/8" wall and no worries I have a ton of scrape to play around with.

So when you weld Aluminum on your push stroke do you weave, or just push straight? I tend to weave when I migh steel.

[Broccoli1]

You can't add the 180 to your sig until it is in yer shop:p

[Broccoli1]

So her are a couple Pics. Real quick- brushed area with SS brush

1/8" and 16g

I usually weld steel in the open but with AL any slight breeze will ruin yer day-

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/EdConley/Shop.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/EdConley/18AL.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/EdConley/16gAL.jpg


Pushing right to left. I'm still new at AL but once you pull the trigger ya gotta go go go:) You'll see.

[flop-a-welder]

Dave,

Yeah my material is 1/8" wall and no worries I have a ton of scrape to play around with.

So when you weld Aluminum on your push stroke do you weave, or just push straight? I tend to weave when I migh steel.

typically when welding aluminum there are three techniques that i use. first one that i use is for thin thin aluminum and really quick welds that you want to stay flat as much as possible it is just a really fast straight stroke across the seam. you have to get just the right speed to make a good weld. it will burn through on thin metal really quick so you want to just watch it burn together and keep moving. having your machine set properly is key to all aluminum welding... here are some basic guides 1/8 and under start at 15 volts and usually go up from there it is aluminum so you do typically weld with a hotter puddle than steel. 3/16 and 1/4 i usually weld pretty hot about 19 volts anything over 1/4 i usually atart out at 21 volts and adjust to what i want. you set your wire speed accordingly you dont want it to sound like popcorn but you dont want it to have a continual hissing sound. find a happy medium that works for your speed. the othere two techniques are a little more complicated to explain. i call the first one a hop technique where you start out your weld like the straight technique from earlier but instead of moving steadily in a straight line move forward in 1/8 to 1/4 inch increments each hop you pause for almost a second to let the puddle build up. this is the usual technique that you see done on aluminum in most weld shops it takes practise to perfect but once you do you wont ever want to lay your weld any other way. the third technique is for really heavy aluminum and it is a weave but a very small weave that is ran really really fast i usually use a "C" weave when i have to weave on aluminum and i try to go no wider tan about 3/4 inch wide. like i said before i would advise that you go to a shop that does some aluminum mig and ask if you can watch someone run a few beads. ;):D

[SinGear]

typically when welding aluminum there are three techniques that i use.

Wow, thanks for all the info. I agree with you on seeing somebody do something, which is why I plan to run by a buddies shop tomorrow and find out if their laying down any Mig Aluminum.

If not I'll go with the sink or swim trial by fire method, maybe test out my skills making a bottle rack for my Argon tank.

[SinGear]

You can't add the 180 to your sig until it is in yer shop:p

Are ya happy now ED? Consider it a comprimise. :p

[Iron Head]

I really shouldn’t voice my opinion on this subject, because it’s been at least 30-years since running any aluminum mig. Few months ago I bought a used Cobra unit off e-Bay, and these were my first attempts. I know they are not the best examples:o, but I found it just as easy as any other mig / wire feed process. Turn a few dials pull the trigger, then try your best not to fall asleep!;)

[SinGear]

I really shouldn’t voice my opinion on this subject, because it’s been at least 30-years since running any aluminum mig. Few months ago I bought a used Cobra unit off e-Bay, and these were my first attempts.

Looks pretty **** good to me, but any an all examples are helpful thanks for your input. I can't wait to give it a shot, I'm getting twitchy to melt something spent most the day yesterday in the shop cutting and preping my pieces, so I'm all ready :D

[safetydave]

Dave,

Yeah my material is 1/8" wall and no worries I have a ton of scrape to play around with.

So when you weld Aluminum on your push stroke do you weave, or just push straight? I tend to weave when I migh steel.

Singear sorry its been so long getting back with you on this but yes I do a weave weld on my push, its kind of like when your doing a t-weld and you vertical peice is thicker then horizontal you would push your weave to then thickest to get better penatration to it and just reverse the process if the horizantol is thicker, when I do it its a counter-clock or clock wise welding process (example-- vert thicker material would be a clock-wise weld) horizantol thicker material would be a counter-clock wise weld

so do you kind of get the picture of what I'm talking about or do you think I'm crazy with my weld jargen?

[SinGear]

so do you kind of get the picture of what I'm talking about or do you think I'm crazy with my weld jargen?

Haha yeah Dave I get what you mean. Then am I correct to assume that aluminum with the same thickness would be more a just a straight push?

To give you an idea what I'm doing I have 8" lengths of 2"x2" x1/8" L that will be welded to the top of a 2" x 2" x 1/8" square tube, pretty much a table leg if that makes sense.

Other then that I am impatiently tapping my foot waiting for the UPS guy and my new box. All the material is cut and prep and waiting, gotta have it done tonight, so I have all night to practice learn and fabricate no worries haha:cool:

[SinGear]

Ok no joke on the gotta be fast, I didn't realize it was a dead sprint:eek::eek:

[Broccoli1]

Ok no joke on the gotta be fast, I didn't realize it was a dead sprint:eek::eek:

http://slagpit.com/forums/images/smilies/mutley.gif


Fun ain't it.

[SinGear]

Um yeah, not so much, did ya happen to read the play by play I added to the original post?

[Broccoli1]

:D

I forgot to mention AL gets HOT!! and stays HOT a lot longer than MS.

AL grinding is tough- Too much and ya get Gum.

Heat is the enemy!!!

For the couple welds I needed to re-do I used a hand file and just filed it all out and welded it again. Luckily it was an outside lap joint that I could get to:D

Die grinders will work also but ya still gotta wax em up to keep them from clogging up.

these are for Non ferrous material- haven't tried them yet.
http://www.carbidebur.com/nfburs/nfall.htm

[SinGear]

Yeah it does retain its heat quite well.

Ohh outside lap how lucky for you all my joints last night were inside corners:mad:

I have actually seen and used those bits in the past to hown out holes they work pretty well, may have to give it a shot on the next Aluminum project

[Iron Head]

Try using a Dremel or die-grinder with the burr of your choice, dip the burr in kerosene! ;)

[duaneb55]

Hey SinGear,

Congrats on the new machine. I'm kinda surprised that no one suggested checking out the learning video right here on the Miller sight!:rolleyes:

http://www.millerwelds.com/swf/flv/flashvid.html?swf=MIG_Aluminum_Welding.swf&w=320&h=240&v=8

Next best thing to watching someone in person.:D

Duane

[SinGear]

Good call on the Video I may still look into that.

Well the update is in and I posted the pics. Sorry there massive gotta figure out how to size them next time I guess.

So what do you guys think? Is that an excessive amount of soot around the welds or is that normal? My Argon was at 30

[duaneb55]

Good call on the Video I may still look into that.

Well the update is in and I posted the pics. Sorry there massive gotta figure out how to size them next time I guess.

So what do you guys think? Is that an excessive amount of soot around the welds or is that normal? My Argon was at 30

I don't see any pics.:confused:

Excessive (any) soot is typically from:
1) Dragging rather than pushing the weld
2) Gun nozzle too far from the work piece

[Iron Head]

So what do you guys think?

Little to cold, turn her up! ;)

[SinGear]

I don't see any pics.:confused:

Take a look on page 1 the original post, I added them there. As far as the soot, I was doing a push and it seemed like the times I moved the gun closer I fused to the tip. Is it typical to be able to actually see your wire, or note?:confused:

[SinGear]

Little to cold, turn her up! ;)

More amps but the same feed speed ya think? I'll give it shot next time. If I remember correctly I was at about 62 on my feed rate and about 5.5 on the voltage setting.

[Broccoli1]

Take a look on page 1 the original post, I added them there.

Will you stop doing that- keep making me go back to the beginning an' all:D:p

[Broccoli1]

.030 or .035 wire

.030 Chart suggests 5/70

Going back through the thread came across this

"typically when welding aluminum there are three techniques that i use. first one that i use is for thin thin aluminum and really quick welds that you want to stay flat as much as possible it is just a really fast straight stroke across the seam. "
from Flop-a-welder

I would consider 1/8" Thin- not sure if it is thin thin:) but what he says about the torch angle I did find true as I was welding 16g and the Flatter torch angle helped a lot.

I was also instructed to turn my gas down to 20CFH.

Don't look at the wire, watch the puddle.:)

[SinGear]

.035 wire waas what I used and there isn't much time to do much other than run run run haha

[safetydave]

Haha yeah Dave I get what you mean. Then am I correct to assume that aluminum with the same thickness would be more a just a straight push?

To give you an idea what I'm doing I have 8" lengths of 2"x2" x1/8" L that will be welded to the top of a 2" x 2" x 1/8" square tube, pretty much a table leg if that makes sense.

Other then that I am impatiently tapping my foot waiting for the UPS guy and my new box. All the material is cut and prep and waiting, gotta have it done tonight, so I have all night to practice learn and fabricate no worries haha:cool: Hey Sin, even if the metal is the same on both parts I still put a weave to it just for the penatration aspect rather then just a straight weld pass.
Very rarely do I do a straight push on any Aluminum unless it's a stringer bead then go over with the cover weld to finish it up AND MAKE IT LOOK PRETTY!! for the show-boaters to see how it's suppose to look like when done the right way by some one who knows what there doing-talking about when it comes to welding and not spreading fudge-butter:D:D