The price of gas getting you down? -Back yard refinery-

[Blue Collar Moto]

Kinda off topic, but not completely. Going to weld up the stands and plumbing for it.

Just getting into the Bio-Diesel concept. The commercial home refineries are expensive. $4000.00 and up. One can be made at home for around one to two hundred dollars. If its worth having its worth making yourself. :D

Before I get flamed for the price of commercial bio diesel let me repeat myself. I'm going to be making it myself. I have some Chinese restaurants lined up to give me the used oil already. 0.75c VS 4.05 per gallon!

Here is a link to a good site I found on the subject.
http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums/

A part of the project will include changing out my old gas burning V8 in my 67 chevy van, and putting in a diesel engine. Plenty of welding for new mounts, cross members, and storage tanks.

[SignWave]

Col idea. I wish you luck with it.. I got stuck behind a Benz running this stuff. My eyes were on fire and it smelled like takeout deepfry...

Dont you have to rejet as well?

[Blue Collar Moto]

No need to re-jet. I think some cars/trucks work better than others. Sounds like the guy in front of you didn't wash the diesel before putting it in his tank. There are trace amounts of soap in the oil made by the refining process. If not washed out it could make your eyes burn. :eek: :D

PS. It will smell like take out! So if your on a diet you decide for yourself.

[burninbriar]

Good luck with the project, I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
Just a word of caution though. I saw on the news a while ago where a guy got busted for tax evasion by making his own fuel. Money for road maintenance (and whatever else they decide to do with it) comes from the tax on fuel.

[Blue Collar Moto]

Good luck with the project, I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
Just a word of caution though. I saw on the news a while ago where a guy got busted for tax evasion by making his own fuel. Money for road maintenance (and whatever else they decide to do with it) comes from the tax on fuel.

Pay un to Caesar what is Caesar's....... Ya, you still will have to pay the man. :mad:

[DSW]

As long as you have a supplier lined up and can keep them, good for you.

I know several guys that have either gone the home made bio route or run WVO. The big problem that they have is now many places are realizing that the "trash" oil has a value. Their oil supliers have started to sell the waste oil to companies that collect it and sell it to bio producers. The "free" oil is gone and they are stuck still paying for the equipment / conversions that they got.

Don't forget that the new diesel motor will have an expense in itself. A reman motor for my truck is $6-7K. Be advised that there have been a lot of problems with cloged filters in standard diesel engine that have been converted to bio. If you go with used parts expect to change fuel filters very frequently as the bio loosens up old deposits.

Also remember that most bio will gell at temps below about 50F. In cool or cold weather you will have to cut it with std diesel at least 50/50 to be able to use it. Still a savings, but if you've ever had a diesel engine that wont start due to gelled fuel, its not fun.

Have you considdered what you will do with the waste residue? From my understanding it's about 30-40% of the final product.

I looked into the idea. I use between 35-55gal of std diesel / week. That would mean procesing about a minimum of 55-75 gal of waste oil each week. The collection hasssles plus the fact that most places are starting to sell the waste oil to collection companies for $ just didn't make it worth it. If you can do it for $200 go for it.

[Blue Collar Moto]

Good point. There have even been instances where people have been caught stealing the oil. Once it is in the collection tank it belongs to the oil co. You have to set up your own 55gal drum for the guys to use. I think it depends largely upon where you live. Here in Los Angeles the restaurants pay to have the oil removed. The jell issue is not a problem here 95% of the time.
I drive on average 100 plus miles a day for work. The savings to me will be like getting a extra paycheck each month. Ya gotta do the math for your own circumstances to see if its a good alternative for yourself. ;)

[DSW]

Blue Collar Moto definately look into the waste by product issue. Your driving sounds a lot like mine. My 2000 7.3 get 15 mpg with 3.73's. The 08' 6.4 a stinkin 8 mpg. You will have a lot of oil to process and a lot of waste. Don't forget that you will need storage capasity and most likely a pump to transfer. Gravity is ok but thats a ton, literally, of weight to have up in the air. Diesel is a bit over 7 lb / gal.

I have a 115gal transfer tank in the F250 with a 12v pump and filter, a 275 gal home heating oil tank with a 115v pump and filter, and several 55 gal drums with a hand crank pump, that I use for fuel. You will definately want to get a filter for your pump. The kind I use screw on like an oil filter and have a water absorbing media in them. When they fill up with water they stop flowing. Water will be one of the biggest problems. Water in diesel injectors will quickly get VERY expensive.

If you are driving a small VW ignore most of this.

[Broccoli1]

I have a friend that is making BIO in his Apt. geerage up here in LA.

If ya want his info let me know- I'm sure he would be interested in helping ya & show you his set-up and the amount he is producing

Ed

ed@screamingbroccoli.net

[Blue Collar Moto]

Cool guys.
I have it pretty well planed out. Going to do a solar pre heat box to keep the stored raw waste oil at a nice temp before going threw the second set of filters. First set will just be a cloth rag. Second filter 20 micron before processing. Third & fourth smaller still before going into the tank.

Pumps that most $4000.00 systems use are just cheap $30.00 pumps from Harbor Freight.

As far as the byproduct disposal goes, I'm not sure about all that yet. Still doing research on a few things. Making soap out of it is not recommended despite what the commercial sellers of the equipment would have you believe. I know that some of it can go down the drain as it is just soap water. No different than washing your dishes. The solids can be processed more to be made safe for the trash man. (set out to dry)

[Blue Collar Moto]

Here's a sample of the show TRUCKS that got me going.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=457773184300286737&pr=goog-sl
--WARNING-- The system shown on the show has a lot of negative feedback from people on the bio fuel site.

[blackbeard's welding]

i heard a rumour up here in thegreat white north, as of 2010 all vehicles soldin canada and us, will gave to get 35mpg from factory.is this a load of b.s.?? im sure the diesels would be able to if the quality of our diesel was a good as europes. i was told by the head mechanic of Halliburton(who attended a fuel symposium on 2007) that N.A. diesel is a much lower quality than europes and the hopes the governments have for emmisions and ave mpg was just a pipe dream. anyone have any thoughts???

[DSW]

That may well be true for passenger vehicles. Heavy trucks could very well be exempted. It's easy to get a diesel car to get 50 mpg+. The VW jettas do right now. Thats a bit different than an 19K F550 or a 80K Mack.

It wouldn't surprise me to see medium trucks get that kind of milage, if they just cocentrate on milage. My older F250 can get close to 20 on the highway and with an aditional .8 OD could easily get 25mpg if you tweeaked the trasnmision shifts.

[blackbeard's welding]

my stock 2007,6.0 ford duallie gets 18mpg regularily, and it weighs 12k all the time, so 35mpg empty should be a reasonable goal dont ya think?:D

[DSW]

Then explain why my new 08 ford 6.4 gets 8mpg at that weight. :confused: Please.... Answer new emmisions crud added.

[blackbeard's welding]

i read in a diesel magazine, now keep in mind im a welder not a mechanic or engineer, that the diesel on the market is clogging the particulate filters quite often and so the burns have to be longer means more fuel consumption, id dont think this the only part to the equation but a definite possibility.

ive heard the new 6.7 dodges arent that great on fuel eithr. it might be my imagination, but it seems that just as the diesel engines(any make or model) get all the bugs worked out of they "redesign" it to make it better, and the result is a less reliable and/or lower mpg engine

[DDA52]

Brew all the diesel you want...you just better pay the road taxes on it. They have sniffers working in the Dallas area sniffing out the homebrewers. If you can't prove you paid the fed/state taxes on it with a rcpt or equivalent, you get a nice big fat ticket to pay.:( Get caught multiple times, read that as twice, you can be looking at jail time for tax evasion.:eek::rolleyes: I think the Dallas project is a test project. Once they work the bugs out, betcha they start deploying them everywhere. Big Brother is watching.:eek:

[Blue Collar Moto]

Brew all the diesel you want...you just better pay the road taxes on it. They have sniffers working in the Dallas area sniffing out the homebrewers. If you can't prove you paid the fed/state taxes on it with a rcpt or equivalent, you get a nice big fat ticket to pay.:( Get caught multiple times, read that as twice, you can be looking at jail time for tax evasion.:eek::rolleyes: I think the Dallas project is a test project. Once they work the bugs out, betcha they start deploying them everywhere. Big Brother is watching.:eek:


Ya. Unfortunately your right on the money with the big brother thing. Also I wouldn't think about doing it if I had to do it for a long time to get a payback on the investment of materials. Like someone said above, you will have to pay for your used oil soon enough. It is getting recognized as a commodity more every day. Although Im also starting up a home foundry. Sniff away & dont forget to take video of me putting it in my truck becouse I will also be using it to melt steel.

[StillBoostin]

I'm all for gov't but they need to butt out of this cause they aren't doing anything to keep gas prices down. Gas traded at a all tome high of $120 a barrel today. Expert predict $200-$250 before summers end. I think I'm going Diesel and Bio to save money.

James

[SignWave]

Pay un to Caesar what is Caesar's....... Ya, you still will have to pay the man. :mad:

F*** tha man. Just like he's F****** us... Arent you tired of it all yet?
Born to live taxed to death. All those billions of your hard earned dollars going to politicians and things you cant even begin to think of...

I dont mean to be a shi t disturber but its true...
Im thinking of building a still so that i can make ethenol or wood alcohol. I need to read up more though. An edumacation is the first place to start.

[DDA52]

Take a breath.....a slow deep breath.:rolleyes:

[Black Wolf]

I'm all for the Bio-Diesel concept....It would be the only way I would consider owning a diesel powered vehicle OR welder at these prices.

One drawback though:

Just think.....You pull onto a pipeline, and every machine is burning Bio-Diesel...... Buggars wouldn't get anything done - They'd all be watching the clock, waiting for lunch. :D

[DDA52]

I am still leary of the bio diesel. Local, and only refiner of bd here, recently had to buy several engines and paid the repair bills for several thousand trucks. Bad batch. :(:eek:

[aametalmaster]

Years ago we ran all of our shop trucks on propane because it was cheap. And yes you still have to pay mileage tax, so keep some good books...Bob

[Goodhand]

I have some Chinese restaurants lined up to give me the used oil already. 0.75c VS 4.05 per gallon!

So, you think you have a good deal, getting used cooking oil from the Chinese restaurants... do you know what all of that MSG can do to an engine? :(

[SignWave]

Take a breath.....a slow deep breath.:rolleyes:

okay okay okay . Im good im good.. too much cccccofffee way too much ccoffe but im okay now really realy i am really.

Bio deisel is worse for the enviro than dino deisel... corn oil will solidify with time. check out the bottle or jug your wife has in her kitchen.. look for the gooey yelloish deposits about the spout. can you imagine what the goop could be doing to your innards... hmmmmm what the he ll is it going to do to an engine..?

[SignWave]

this is the ultimate answer to the enrgy crisis of the 21st century....

take and atom of ununhexium
Symbol: Uuh
Atomic number: 116
Atomic weight: [ 292 ]

And bombard it with protons. this creates anti matter. the enrgy created from this reaction could be harnessed to heat water to turn a generator..
a reactor the size of a walnut could feed the energy requirements of a city the size of seattle....

YEAH RIGHT.. but really. this technology is not far away. mark my words. Im not quite right in my spew but im close.

so who here by show of hands thinks signwave has gone of the deep end? hehehehehe... think what you want.:D many other ideas were shot down along the way.. like the world was round instead of flat and the sun revolved around the earth...

[Synchroman]

So, you think you have a good deal, getting used cooking oil from the Chinese restaurants... do you know what all of that MSG can do to an engine? :(

Yeah, and you're going to need a filter for the fish heads and bones that you will find in the oil.

I can recall a Chinese restaurant that was down on the corner from our house when I was a kid in Chicago, They used to pour the used oil into the sewers. Heh heh.

:rolleyes:

[Blue Collar Moto]

So, you think you have a good deal, getting used cooking oil from the Chinese restaurants... do you know what all of that MSG can do to an engine? :(

Hehehehe! Im hoping the thing will grow me a spare tire on the back door. :D

[Blue Collar Moto]

Yeah, and you're going to need a filter for the fish heads and bones that you will find in the oil.

I can recall a Chinese restaurant that was down on the corner from our house when I was a kid in Chicago, They used to pour the used oil into the sewers. Heh heh.

:rolleyes:

Smells great! :) Less filling! :mad:

Oh man. I need more coffie. :D

[madcow]

i have been burning straight oil, not converting it to bio, just filter it and dump it in the tank. been doing it for 5 years now. the tractor gets up to 50% mix in the tank. the old deere is pretty good on fuel, at 6 gallons per hour if i get 15 gallons a week to toss in the tank it isnt much but it helps.
use an old milk sock from the dairy pipeline for filtering the oil.

the bigger tractor has a "P" series pump and higher nozzle pressure so it can handle thicker oil in the tank.

the little 4020's have the rotary pump and pencil injectors, they run about 1000psi lower pop pressure, it can handle up to a 25% mix.

starting takes a couple more cranks in the morning. little more blue smoke at idle. gained about 100 rpm in the field. little more black smoke than the newer fuels.

on the new trucks i am not sure how the unit injectors are for sensitivity to any contamination or what not. in theory they should be great for running veggie oil or drain oil since they are at a 25k lbs pop pressure.

[atwood]

The bio-diesel is a great way to go. I made a kit up to use on our irrigation pumps on our ranch. After you replace your first couple filters you will be fine, and your clogging issues will be long gone with a squeaky clean system. The fuel does eat through some of the older fuel lines quicker than regular diesel but you can buy a couple feet of hos at 4.25 a gallon. You will also notice that your rig will run a little quieter and possibly better on the bio. This new low sulfur crap were getting is hard on our fuel pumps, no lubrication unless you run additives. And as far as the fuel tax goes, play dumb, I think there making enough already. Good luck, Adolf Diesel would be proud

[DDA52]

Playing ignorant will just get you the same ticket.:rolleyes: It would put me in jail as I have a signed DD Cert on file with the state. The Dyed Diesel has no road taxes on it. If I get caught using non taxed diesel in a manner that is considered taxable, I'm sunk like the Titanic.....and so is anyone else with a tax free affidavit on file with the states.


The only time they can get you is if you use that stuff on the road. Off road, they can't touch you.

[DSW]

I've seen the DOT guys dipping tanks more frequently lately. Hmm... wonder why..... They have definately stepped up looking for drivers using dyed diesel. It wont be long before they look for wvo and bio. The last guy I knew who got nailed for dyed diesel the fine was $10000 for the first offense. They don't issue these guys a sense of humor. You are guilty until proven innocent.

[Blue Collar Moto]

I've seen the DOT guys dipping tanks more frequently lately. Hmm... wonder why..... They have definately stepped up looking for drivers using dyed diesel. It wont be long before they look for wvo and bio. The last guy I knew who got nailed for dyed diesel the fine was $10000 for the first offense. They don't issue these guys a sense of humor. You are guilty until proven innocent.

Hitler would of been proud. :mad:
Soon enough someones gonna moniteur how many times and with what kind of paper we wipe our arses with. :eek:

[c wagner]

Hitler would of been proud. :mad:
Soon enough someones gonna moniteur how many times and with what kind of paper we wipe our arses with.

Oh I guess you haven't heard that they are all ready doing that!!!:(

:D Let us know how your bio diesel experiment turns out. Living in the cold climate that I do I don't think I'd try it, it'd just be one big gelled mess!:eek:

[madcow]

Hitler would of been proud. :mad:
Soon enough someones gonna moniteur how many times and with what kind of paper we wipe our arses with. :eek:

google video "freedom to fascism" 2 hours of get your blood boiling.

they are already talking about using the gps on cars to tax you on your miles. then they will be able to see how much gas you use for the miles you drive and tax you more for if you have a poor gas milage vehicle.
you havent seen anything yet. give it 10 years.

[fun4now]

best of luck with the bio . i looked into it a little bit but getting oil here is no longer doable. seems to all be claimed by farmers with a deal with the restaurant, or other source. good for the farmers i say. i would try to get a contract with the restaurants. agree to pick up weekly or whatever works for them so they don't get over loaded. with your temps you could probably get away with strait oil burning with a diesel startup. you could run your radiator lines threw the oil tank to bring it up in temp. as said fuel lines and filters are a big thing, but thats about all it seems is needed. an older motor may be a big advantage. i did run into a guy up here that runs it in VW rabbits all summer but docent bother in the winter. however his tractor is run on it year round with a diesel start.
as for the gas tax. i would keep a record of fuel used and pay it. its not as bad as you may think, most of the $ per gal is going to the oil people not the road tax. should still come out well ahead. definitely should look into it before the ticket shows up.;)
keep us posted and best of luck.

[fun4now]

so who here by show of hands thinks signwave has gone of the deep end? hehehehehe

i dont think so, your just fed up like the rest of us.........:rolleyes:......just a bit more outspoken.:D

[kcstott]

Friend of mine set up a bio fuel plant in an out building on his property. about $100 in parts and a bunch of stuff he already had laying around and he now makes fuel for around .40 cents a gallon.
Very simple set up. he now has drums of fuel stacked outside the door to the out building.

[tnjind]

I built the Bio reactor a couple years ago. I made one batch with it. It was more fun making the contraption then making the fuel. All I have is an old '94 chevy with the 6.5l turbo. I didn't want experiment with it because the pump is expensive and the injectors are real hard to get to.
I did burn it in bug torches and started brush fires with it, seemed to burn OK. I needed to wash it a final time to burn it in a vehical tho.

I am looking for a very cheap POS diesel car or truck to run on bio, if I find one then I will start making it again. Diesel here is $4.30 a gallon.

[kcstott]

Well that buddy of mine runs his bio in his 05 Ford F350 4x4SD. And it runs just fine on it. Granted he most likely voided his warrantee but he doesn't seem to care

[Blue Collar Moto]

Well we will see if the supply of used oil is still there by the time I get things up and running. Had another guy with a bar & grill tell me last weekend to come on by and pick it up. ;)

[fun4now]

you should start collecting the oil now, it will go fast.;) i picked up 8 55gal 10W30 oil drums from a local farmer. if you have one near you they may well sell you the drums much cheaper than buying tanks from TSC. seems like i paid $5 or $10 each for mine. just make shore the drums are not from chemical use or you could get into handling and disposal problem with hazer duse materials.
good luck keep us posted.

[Bert]

google video "freedom to fascism" 2 hours of get your blood boiling.

they are already talking about using the gps on cars to tax you on your miles. then they will be able to see how much gas you use for the miles you drive and tax you more for if you have a poor gas milage vehicle.
you havent seen anything yet. give it 10 years.

At first I got REALLY pi$$ed when I started reading this thread and thought "HOW DARE THEY TAX ON BIO FUEL!!!!!" But one of the post re: checking the dye, yeah, they fine you big time too if you get caught with marine or farm diesel, because of the road tax stuff...yeesh...oh, btw, don't think they are trying THAT hard in bringing the price of gas down, or finding an alternative fuel source anytime soon!!!!! One of my dad's family members made something in the 60's and I won't need to tell you the rest....After a lot of threatening phone calls and one of his sons died, he dropped the project......We need to be politicians, mostly senators, where their pensions are the same as their salary for life, the I won't bother to find that report in what the Clintons are doing:mad::mad:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still think this is the best country to live in, just that it's going bad fast.........I deleted the e-mail my mom gave me, but the speaker of the house (the lady) wants to suck more taxes out from us so we can provide the illegal aliens and jobless with money so they can live the American dream like us..............
horsesh!t:mad:!!!!!!! I thought the illegal aliens were supposed to be sent back, and the jobless were supposed to find jobs, and the American Dream was to WORK, so you can HAVE the things you want???!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never read the American Dream was to live in America and have all the other people give you money to live the good life!!!!!!!!!!

[Blue Collar Moto]

At first I got REALLY pi$$ed when I started reading this thread and thought "HOW DARE THEY TAX ON BIO FUEL!!!!!" But one of the post re: checking the dye, yeah, they fine you big time too if you get caught with marine or farm diesel, because of the road tax stuff...yeesh...oh, btw, don't think they are trying THAT hard in bringing the price of gas down, or finding an alternative fuel source anytime soon!!!!! One of my dad's family members made something in the 60's and I won't need to tell you the rest....After a lot of threatening phone calls and one of his sons died, he dropped the project......We need to be politicians, mostly senators, where their pensions are the same as their salary for life, the I won't bother to find that report in what the Clintons are doing:mad::mad:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still think this is the best country to live in, just that it's going bad fast.........I deleted the e-mail my mom gave me, but the speaker of the house (the lady) wants to suck more taxes out from us so we can provide the illegal aliens and jobless with money so they can live the American dream like us..............
horsesh!!!!!!!! I thought the illegal aliens were supposed to be sent back, and the jobless were supposed to find jobs, and the American Dream was to WORK, so you can HAVE the things you want???!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never read the American Dream was to live in America and have all the other people give you money to live the good life!!!!!!!!!!

One of my new years resolutions was to not talk politics. The doctor says I need to keep my blood pressure down. Just pisses me off whats happening to OUR country! But I will say that as long as the politicians pander for votes it will not change. They spend as much time looking at demographics as they do raising our taxes. Used to be only the Democrats were tax and spend. Now thanks to http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/BLUECOLLARMOTO/453px-George-W-Bush.jpg I feel all hope is lost.....
Now dont he look goofy?

[Bert]

I voted for him, and now feel bad about it, problem is, if the Democrats get in again, watch how so much MORE we will be screwed!!!!!!!!!!
Ok....I'm finished with the politics....thanks for letting me vent:)

[Blue Collar Moto]

you should start collecting the oil now, it will go fast.;) i picked up 8 55gal 10W30 oil drums from a local farmer. if you have one near you they may well sell you the drums much cheaper than buying tanks from TSC. seems like i paid $5 or $10 each for mine. just make shore the drums are not from chemical use or you could get into handling and disposal problem with hazer duse materials.
good luck keep us posted.

I only wish I had the room where
I live now to do that. Were moving
this summer after the oldest girl
finishes high school. Shhhh. Dont
tell the new landlord were coming...

You see my predicament.
bedroom;
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/BLUECOLLARMOTO/untitledshovel.jpg
backyard; (incert Sanford and Son music here)
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/BLUECOLLARMOTO/DhT6VMUjPehOz4nYuOXrxdURyTD5gIAQ030.jpg
Garage; (only a one car with five bikes and a few tons of junk)
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/BLUECOLLARMOTO/069-1.jpg

[scott0031]

I am looking for a very cheap POS diesel car or truck to run on bio, if I find one then I will start making it again. Diesel here is $4.30 a gallon.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm do you Guys have any idea what we are forced to pay for diesel in the UK?

£1.20 a litre at the moment and rising fast
3.8 litres in a gallon (us Gallons)
3.8 x £1.20 =£4.56

converted into US dollars $9.0008 Going on the yahoo currency convertor

That's basing it on a US gallon at 3.8 litres The gallon we use here is 4.5 litres per gallon (could be a sort of metric gallon not sure)

I get the impression the wages here in the UK pound for Pound are very similar To the U.S.A looking on some prices some have said they managed to charge for jobs.

70% of that fuel cost we pay in tax. Welcome to rip off England!

Maybe its so bad after all?

Not sure about in the states but here diesel is more expensive than gasoline
(Petrol to me) shows what a rip off it is as diesel is a no where near as refined as petrol and is many refinement stages before you get to petrol out of crude.

Yep like all things in the UK its a rip off. Who wants to visit?;)


Kind regards from across the pond,

scott

[Bert]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm do you Guys have any idea what we are forced to pay for diesel in the UK?

£1.20 a litre at the moment and rising fast
3.8 litres in a gallon (us Gallons)
3.8 x £1.20 =£4.56

converted into US dollars $9.0008 Going on the yahoo currency convertor

That's basing it on a US gallon at 3.8 litres The gallon we use here is 4.5 litres per gallon (could be a sort of metric gallon not sure)

I get the impression the wages here in the UK pound for Pound are very similar To the U.S.A looking on some prices some have said they managed to charge for jobs.

70% of that fuel cost we pay in tax. Welcome to rip off England!

Maybe its so bad after all?

Not sure about in the states but here diesel is more expensive than gasoline
(Petrol to me) shows what a rip off it is as diesel is a no where near as refined as petrol and is many refinement stages before you get to petrol out of crude.

Yep like all things in the UK its a rip off. Who wants to visit?;)


Kind regards from across the pond,

scott

Isn't it nice to remember, when the diesel became available at the local gas pumps in the 70's, and the price of gas was $1.50 (just guessing), and diesel was something like $.50/gal??? As the popularity of diesel rose up, so did the price......thank you for "Taking care of the people!!!!!!!!!!"

[scott0031]

well this is exactly it, This is what eats me up the most about the rip off prices with diesel. By rights It should be a at least third less than gasoline. That's until the greedy opportunist petrol company ' as you rightly say' saw the rise in diesel vehicles.

As always the governments wont do squat all about it as the more it costs us the more they get for their coffers.

It all stinks in my book. Greed is one of the prime evils in my book and destroys everyday normal people. It creates a vicious circle. One person's greed for something has to be paid for, Which in turn makes the person paying having to make up their money so greed escalates.

Sux!


Glad to say i had my first 200 litres of bio diesel arrive today. Not a huge saving but if it stops the greed monsters getting richer, That's good in my book.


Regards,

Scott

[Bert]

Scott, sorry to say this, but make sure you pay the appropriate taxes necessary....hate to see you getting busted and paying even MORE money for fines.............:o

[scott0031]

Ah thx But its all totally legitimate taxes paid made under proper legislation, license blah blah all that. Its just a bit cheaper:)

I don't mess with things like that over here. If your caught its something in the region of $40,000 fine and your car crushed. Not worth the risk. The goverment dont take prisioners here if they are being had over. They kill you outright!


Thanks for your concern.


Kind regards,

Scott

[KBar]

Im holding out. Dont throw bricks at me but Im paying $7 a week for gas back and forth to work along with errands. This is on my motorcycle at 47mpg. If I cut back, I can get it down to $3.50 a week. The last 2 weeks, I used 2 gallon in my Blazer. I had to smile today as I passed the gas station, gas came DOWN a whole 2 cents today, does that mean it will go up 4 cents tomorrow :p

[fun4now]

Blue Collar Moto
you would have more room if you sent me one of them hog's.i'll give it a loveing home. i have not gotten to play with one in.........:rolleyes:.............. lets just settle on 20 ish + ish.....:o well you get the idea.:p
so you planing to make the oil/fuel in the bath tub ???:eek:


so as we start to hear of the first bio/fuel stations opening up i have to wonder....what taxes are being paid there?? do you still need to keep track and do it on your own or is the pump recept covering it ??

[DSW]

fun4now If you sell fuel retail you have to add the tax on at the time of sale. If it will not be taxed then you have to dye it to show that no taxes have been paid. All the bio fuel producers should be taking care of the tax. Your pump reciept should take care of any questions.

If you can't prove you bought it legit then there may be some problems especially if you have a bio setup at home. If you brew it yourself and they dig a little they will be able to prove that you are cheating on the taxes. Most likely there will be a maximum amount that you can produce and not pay the tax. If your records show more raw materials purchased than you can account for then the problems will begin.

[Blue Collar Moto]

Blue Collar Moto
you would have more room if you sent me one of them hog's.i'll give it a loveing home. i have not gotten to play with one in....................... lets just settle on 20 ish + ish..... well you get the idea.
so you planing to make the oil/fuel in the bath tub ???


so as we start to hear of the first bio/fuel stations opening up i have to wonder....what taxes are being paid there?? do you still need to keep track and do it on your own or is the pump recept covering it ??

No bathtub brewing. :D
Were moving to a larger place in the next few months.

As far as the bikes go, they are all for sale after I finish building them. I will be posting pix of the Ironhead in Motorsports in the next few weeks. I'm about ready to weld up the rocker boxes. Still need to chop the frame and splice it back together. Just need to make some plugs for the old oil passages and refill my oxygen bottle. Man, even with an aluminum file it takes for ever to split them and make it look good. Here's a sample.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/BLUECOLLARMOTO/rokbx.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/BLUECOLLARMOTO/bitdie.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/BLUECOLLARMOTO/roc.jpg
Yes, I'm using O/A to weld them up. Good opportunity to use my new Cobra torch.

[aametalmaster]

well this is exactly it, This is what eats me up the most about the rip off prices with diesel. By rights It should be a at least third less than gasoline.

Regards,

Scott

And how did you come up with the third less than gasoline prices? Just wondering because i make gasoline and diesel and they both take the same amount of processing. And with the new Ultra Low Sulphur diesel comming in the next few years diesel is going to get worse. The off road diesel we have now will be gone, can't be sold. The highway use diesel we have now will become the new off road diesel and the new ULDS will be what you have to buy for on road engines and it takes a whole different process to make...Bob

[DDA52]

My off road diesel is no different than the ULSD road diesel. All it is is ULSD (15ppm) with fugitive dye and no road tax. Says so right on the pump and on the MSDS sheets they give us.

[aametalmaster]

My off road diesel is no different than the ULSD road diesel. All it is is ULSD (15ppm) with fugitive dye and no road tax. Says so right on the pump and on the MSDS sheets they give us.

Then they must do things different in Texas. But Texas has lots more refining than Ohio so they can waste more ULSD by dying it red and downgrading it i guess.
Here the ULSD is 15 ppm which we don't make yet but it will be here in 2009.
The High sulfur red dyed diesel is 5,000 ppm.
The on road diesel is 500 ppm....Bob

[DDA52]

That is strange. We haven't had any LSD in any form since the beginning of 2007, Jan or Feb. That is when the 15ppm stickers started showing up.