Pipeliner 200D,Classic 300D or Vantage400

[pipeliner007]

Im looking at upgrading my welder and cant decide on what to get. I currently have a Ranger 305G, but would like something with a little more weld output to burn 1/4 7018 when needed. I would be useing it for pipeline and pipe fab mostly. I have heard good things about the Vantage 400 , wont even look at the 300. Any help would be great. thanks

[MAC702]

Maybe I missed something. Why is the Pipeliner 200D in the running if you want more output than a Ranger 305G? But the Vantage 300 that you won't consider has more (except in "Pipe" mode). What criteria led to your 3 top choices? That might help us look at them with you.

Do you use a lot of auxiliary power?

[pipeliner007]

The 200D wil burn 1/4 18 better than the Ranger 305G for what I will need it for, mostly for capping pipe, just a few sticks in a row. (I wont be burning that often). I wasnt looking at the Vantage 300, the Vantage 400 that is rated at 100% at 400 amps in stick mode.The Vantage 300 bogs down and even stalls out when running 1/4 7018. I dont need lots of auxilliary power, just to run my grinders so that isnt a issue.

[Wicked one]

The 200D wil burn 1/4 18 better than the Ranger 305G for what I will need it for, mostly for capping pipe, just a few sticks in a row. (I wont be burning that often). I wasnt looking at the Vantage 300, the Vantage 400 that is rated at 100% at 400 amps in stick mode.The Vantage 300 bogs down and even stalls out when running 1/4 7018. I dont need lots of auxilliary power, just to run my grinders so that isnt a issue.

All of these machines will burn 1/4 except the 305g . If you do more pipeline than fab I wouldn't even consider the vantages. I have a pipeliner 200d and just to clear up most misconceptions the 200 is a model number. Even the old sa 200 put out way more than 200 amps(300 or more) my pipeliner puts out 398at the terminals but only has a 60% duty cycle.I've worked along side many pipliners that say capping with 1/4" is faster but at the end of the day 3/16" wins in my opinion. If you are hand rolling 10" std. pipe 1/4" makes a mess (spatter) When I had my pipe pro on my truck I burned 1/4 all the time and the old guys with pure dc machines would kick my a-ss using 3/16(they weren't grinding spatter off the pipe the size of ball bearings. As far as power I think dc is better (it's hard to stall a grinder on dc) Plus In my opinion the 200d is the easiest to trouble shoot( no electronics except for the idler) Tried tested and true is the way to go .I tiried the electronic route with alot of gen power and someone is always trying to plug some thing into your machine . Now you say your main work is pipeline then I would go with a pipeliner 200d with a kubota(mainly because you can get them fixed anywhere). If I were you I would steer clear of the electronic machines. Don't get me wrong the weld ok but the reliablility isn't there for our climate. Now remember that this is JUST MY OPINION and I'm entitled to it. Jef

[Black Wolf]

Jef,
I am also looking to upgrade from my Ranger 250. First choice for dollars was 305G. The one I really want is the Vantage 400. My application is a little different. Mostly gouging, fabbing repairs. Suitcase GMAW & FCAW. Not sure on hi freq GTAW for portability. Not a pipeliner like yourself. Could you let me know what failures etc that you have witnessed to recommend against the Vantages. I would really like to know.

Thanks,

[Wicked one]

Jef,
I am also looking to upgrade from my Ranger 250. First choice for dollars was 305G. The one I really want is the Vantage 400. My application is a little different. Mostly gouging, fabbing repairs. Suitcase GMAW & FCAW. Not sure on hi freq GTAW for portability. Not a pipeliner like yourself. Could you let me know what failures etc that you have witnessed to recommend against the Vantages. I would really like to know.

Thanks,

I worked along side lots of those and pipe pro's and when it get's Alberta cold electronics have a nasty habit of not working when you need them the most and it's not something you can trouble shoot on your own (if a board goes or something like that) Now you say you do alot of gouging, I have been told that gouging with an inverter is really not that good for it(maybe someone who knows could enlighten us) And personally anything with electronics if your bouncing down lease roads or 50 kliks of washboard eventually something is going to rattle loose. Kepp in mind this is just my take on it,and I've had my share of problems with my pipe pro in the 2 years i've had it. I am by no means an expert on the subject. Jef

[Black Wolf]

Jef,
I only asked what your experiences with them were because a good friend of mine up here has been a pipeliner for over 25 years and he recommended the Vantage 400. Has one on his truck now. In the past he has had SA-200. Classic 2, Classic 3 etc. He went to Red-D-Arc and Miller for a while and has settled on the Vantage 400. He runs his cable on a set of Shel-Ryn Aluminum reels which he has been using for many years with little grief. The only recommendation he had for gouging was to bypass the reels and hook direct to the output terminals to avoid unneccessary Voltage Drop and/or cooking the reels. I guess the Shel-Ryns can overheat and wreck the cork gaskets etc next to the contacts and then you have to disassemble them and put a kit in. To solve the vibration problem (or at least minimize it) he uses fancy vibration isolaters that are bolted from the top and the bottom and cost around $85.00 CDN It's been a while since I looked over the specs but I'm sure the Vantage 400 is recommended by Lincoln for gouging. The one my friend has on his truck really gets with the program. I was very impressed. It's all good. Now I have more information and a couple more points of view to consider when it's time to decide. Thanks for the input guys.

Later,

[lynx_welding]

If Your Burning Lots of 1/4 (like days) your working your self out of a job, the way things are going with the new laws on 1 tons stick with the 305G and runn a 3/4 ton truck ive used the vantage 300 great 6010 machine so if your pipelining i'd go with the vantages. i love my 300D quite a bit and i think if i was to buy again it would be a vantage 400 with the perkins

[lynx_welding]

i don;t know all the details but you know have too have your weights on all one tons farmers and the joe blow who wants to just own a dually no matter if your towing or houling or not at all single whell one thons follow same suit

[lynx_welding]

sounds like the same deal i think

[Rvannatta]

If Your Burning Lots of 1/4 (like days) your working your self out of a job, the way things are going with the new laws on 1 tons stick with the 305G and runn a 3/4 ton truck ive used the vantage 300 great 6010 machine so if your pipelining i'd go with the vantages. i love my 300D quite a bit and i think if i was to buy again it would be a vantage 400 with the perkins

Never touched a piece of pipe with it, but we have had a Vantage 400
around for 18 months (about as long as they have existed) and never found a piece of welding rod it won't run.

the ratings right off the front panel are as follows:

http://www.vannattabros.com/2006add/v4003a.jpg

and the overall weight of the machine is light enough to be attractive.

I've thought the blue box boys would meet the competition here but so far
they have left the machine 'unanswered.':confused: :confused:

[Black Wolf]

Lynx,
Thanks for the advice, I checked out your new rig on the cardomain site. Very nice indeed. Guys - it's worth your time to have a look. I heard some static about cracking down on overloaded trucks. If I go new, with a Vantage 400 or similiar, it'll probably be an F450 or F550, though I do love the room in the Mega Cabs. Biggest prob I can see with the M.C. is such a short cab to axle distance to rig up with. If they go with commercial inspections it's nothing new for me. I've had a class 1 license since '94 and had my own semi for 3 years. The way the patch is right now, I think it's best for me to stay with my '99 F-250 short box and rig up a slip out welding skid for my Ranger 250 with similiar toolboxes to Lynx. Then later on, upgrade to the 305G, and keep my 250 for a backup. I'm just in the planning stages to cram as much as I can into the space I have and still be able to use everything.

Later,

[pipeliner007]

If Your Burning Lots of 1/4 (like days) your working your self out of a job, the way things are going with the new laws on 1 tons stick with the 305G and runn a 3/4 ton truck ive used the vantage 300 great 6010 machine so if your pipelining i'd go with the vantages. i love my 300D quite a bit and i think if i was to buy again it would be a vantage 400 with the perkins


What do you mean weights on one-tons. The totall weight on the axels or tires,or Gross Veihcle? I will to to find out more. I do alot of piece work that pays really good if you are fast. They want me to start doing big stuff like next week some 12'' 80, $400 a completed weld, so it would be nice to burn some 1/4 18. They also have some 16" and 24" on the drawing board, no idea what it pays.Up untill now I have only been rolling out 2" 3" and 4" 40,80,and 160, so no need for 1/4. I wonder what it would be like powering a inverter like the V-350 Pro or the XMT 304 of the 305G. Maybe it would be worth packing one around. I love my 305G and would still like to use it.

[Black Wolf]

Smoke,
I'm way ahead of you. I was checking around on a Sterling site at the Acterra, and I found the link to the "Sterling Bullet"..... I'll back up quickly, Chrysler Corporation owns Freightliner, that owns Western Star, that bought the Sterling line off of Ford. Back to the "Bullet" - It is a Dodge bodied Class 4 and Class 5 truck that has an industrial 34" wide frame with a 7000lb steering and 13,500lb rear axle. Very similiar to Ford F650 & F750, only the Bullet doesn't have a fender changeup and comes with low profile 10-bolt 19.5" Rims. Custom "S" badges replace the Dodge stuff.
Check it out for yourself.
http://www.sterlingtrucks.com/SterlingBullet/

Pipeliner007,
From rumours I have heard, the new laws are targeting overloaded trucks in general. All vehicles will have to comply with both Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and Axle Weight Rating. They will also be checking tires for number of plies in sidewall and max load ratings. Sounds like pretty much a commercial vehicle inspection to me. This kind of stuff is a hassle for the guys going everything by the book, but it helps shut down the scabby buggars who are bending the rules and endangering public safety on roadways.
I have never powered up the Invertec v-350 Pro with an engine driven but I have used the Pro at my current job for GMAW/FCAW/SMAW/CAC over the past 18 months. A totally wicked machine, and I'll miss it dearly. I only get to use it 'till Friday then it's time to load up and go to the next shop. FWIW, a guy I know up here powers his Thermadyne inverter with an engine driven and he claims he has way more power using the engine driven.

Later,

On edit, I forgot to address the Mega Cab thing. The reason I am so curious about them is I am also a mechanic, so I have been wondering if I could mount a toolbox in the "back seat" area (cargo screen etc for safety) on one side, and have a place to store my LN-25 etc securely on the other side. This way I wouldn't need much for toolboxes outside and could still fit the Vantage 400 sideways over the axle with the short cab to axle measurement. The Mega Cab is just a dream right now. I think I'm forced economically to stick with what is already paid for - My '99 F-250 and my Ranger 250. I'll do something like Pipeline Dan too, only have my welder & spools on a slide out table for servicing.

[lynx_welding]

pipeliner 007 who do you know around ponoka i know of a guy they call big nick he's working down around calgary at a trailer building place just wondering if youve worked with him and how long ago did you get your ticket

[Black Wolf]

CoalSmoke,
I am assuming from your previous posts that Chrysler is going to release these beasts under the Dodge name??? I don't follow Dodge websites much. Our Dodge dealers in town don't sell them. Our Western Star dealer doesn't sell them and won't work on them. The closest dealership I can get is Edmonton or Red Deer. Kinda sucks. I like the truck too.

Later,

[JTMcC]

Im looking at upgrading my welder and cant decide on what to get. I currently have a Ranger 305G, but would like something with a little more weld output to burn 1/4 7018 when needed. I would be useing it for pipeline and pipe fab mostly. I have heard good things about the Vantage 400 , wont even look at the 300. Any help would be great. thanks


Man, that's a quandry that me and my buddies have conteplated for I-don't know-how-many hours.

We've come to this, somewhat not complete, conclusion. And this applies to pipeline welding as it's defined and practiced in the U.S. which evidently differs quite a bit from what is termed pipelineing in Canada. So take it or leave it, it's just another internet opinion.

For pure-D stick pipeline welding there is nothing that compares to the SA-200's. The 1/4" LoHi you talk about has the potential to overwork one tho, but I know from hard won experience that even on an old, mostly worn out, early 70's model will burn 3/16" LoHi all day, every day, just as fast as you can shuck a stub and light a new rod because I've done that for weeks on end in temperatures over 100 F.

The only criteria that takes you into 250 and 300 land is a need for AC power that can't be met with an inverter running off the SA-200 or the truck. Or, a need for additional amperage such as running the innershield or dualshield wires that are coming into use on tie in welds on automatic jobs. Another factor is that you can find older 250's and 300's in diesel (which of course saves on fuel cost's) at half the price of a new 200D. The 250's and 300's (classic II's, old sa-250's, classic 3's) will stick weld downhill pipe but just not as nice as an old 200. A new 200D will just barely run the wires in pipeline use right now, but they are running maximum capacity all day and that's not good for a $10,000 investment. I have heard the new 300D's/kubota's stick weld better than the older models but haven't used one yet.

The Vantages will do the job on downhill stick pipeline work, there are quite a few used for that here, mostly 300's. They will run the wires nice, and they provide a ton of aux power (which isn't a factor in pipeline work, the only advantage would be if you live somewhere like me where electrical outages are common or if you want to run your full tilt RV off it) (for structural guys they will run mag base drill motors, plasma's, ect nicely). BUT, they still won't stick weld downhill pipe as nice as the old 200 will. Keep in mind the generator machines will need a wire feed module (about $1200 U.S. dollars) to run the wires right.

The 2 cylinder air cooled machines won't make it in my world, they have a place I'm sure but this isn't it. The Miller PipePro's (which you didn't mention) are getting more common on U.S. mainline jobs, but I've heard quite a lot of stories of lack of reliability and expensive repairs. The guys that have them also tell me that they weld the opposite of a Lincoln generator when you're running beads, that is when you need more drive to get it in there, instead of pushing the rod, you need to pull back with the PipePro. That would take an old timer a while to get used to :eek: . But they stack a ton of iron according to everyone that uses them.

My solution, at the moment, is two machines. I've got an old SA200 for pure d pipelining, and a very solid Classic II with wire feed module for running the wires used in pipeline work, and for the pile driving related cans we weld. I'm a big fan of reliability, I don't usually work a whole lot of weeks per year so when I am working I really can't be broke down.

So take it or leave it, it's just an opinion, and LoHi is not used in pipelineing in the United States except on full encirclement sleeves ETS or some hot taps or some stoppers.

JTMcC.

[Rvannatta]

Smoke,

Pipeliner007,
From rumours I have heard, the new laws are targeting overloaded trucks in general. All vehicles will have to comply with both Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and Axle Weight Rating. They will also be checking tires for number of plies in sidewall and max load ratings. Sounds like pretty much a commercial vehicle inspection to me. This kind of stuff is a hassle for the guys going everything by the book, but it helps shut down the scabby buggars who are bending the rules and endangering public safety on roadways.


The 'commercial pickup' is presently something here in the states that
is largely ignored from an enforcement standpoint.

If the pickup is a 'personal use' vehicle you can haul anything you want
and pretty much if the tires don't explode no one says anything.

If the same vehicle is doing something worthwhile its a commercial vehicle
and subject to all the rules you mention including not loading the vehicle or any component more than its 'sticker capacity'.

Under Oregon rules for example a common 'pickup' can be licensed with the same plate and the same cost for up to 8000 lbs as a 'car'. Never mind
that a Dodge crewcab diesel 3500 weighs a little over 8000 without the driver or the sparetire....

this makes no special sense, but approach DOT about fixing the law and they have a panic because they would lose the revenue they are getting
from the fleet operators of light trucks such as UPS and Federal Express and DHL if the weight exemption were increased.

DOT knows that if they cracked down on every tradesman with a tool box
or a welder etc. the political backlash would get the law changed, so they have a don't look, don't tell policy.

Pickups are told to stay out of the scales lines and the enforcement folks
never see an overloaded pickup. Oregon doesn't weign anything less than 20,000 lbs. (Washington state its 16,000 lbs) Since ethey don't weigh them and don't inspect them there are no violators.

You gotta know some day somebody will get a bee in their panties, but in the meantime there are a lot of folks driving these things around thinking they are actually legal.

[Black Wolf]

I hear you on the don't look, don't tell policy. That happens up here sometimes too. Just depends on how well you know the scale attendant. All our scales in Alberta have a very large sign that reads "All Commercial Vehicles over 4500 kgs Must Report to Scale. Recreational Vehicles Exempt" 4500kgs = 11,430lbs. So anything over 11,430lbs has to be scaled. EXCEPT RV's. I just happen to have a 38' Jayco Designer Fifth Wheel at home that weighs in at just about 13,000lbs by itself with the water tanks full not counting my pickup and I'm exempt. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. Nobody has ever checked me to see if I comply with manufacturers specs - which by the way I do. I did a lot of research before I bought the trailer. If they really start enforcing the rules up here a lot of welders with fully rigged one-ton duallies are gonna be really upset when they have to deck off their holiday trailers behind the scales and find someone else to pull them. It's fairly common to see a wave of transient welders roll into town with their rigs and 32-38 foot bumper hitch trailers in tow. Making a living is hard enough without this.

Later,

[MAC702]

Reminds me how grandma can take a VW Beetle on a driver's test to get her license and it lets her pilot that same Winnebago on the road next and in front of me, sometimes both...

[calweld]

. . . EXCEPT RV's. . . .

You can thank the AARP for this . . .

[Black Wolf]

Okay partner - You got me. Please explain what the AARP is. Something stateside maybe? I don't recognize the term.

Thanks
Later,

[MAC702]

Association for the Advancement of Retar, er, Retired Persons.

[Rvannatta]

Okay partner - You got me. Please explain what the AARP is. Something stateside maybe? I don't recognize the term.

Thanks
Later,

One of the USA's strongest lobby groups in Washington DC--- the
old folks lobby. They get what they want. They have a lot of members
sell insurance, and have a magazine and various publications.

Oppose their political agenda and 10,000 grandma's call at once....

They are the reason that no one has ever proposed solving the problem
of our federal retirment program----Social security.

The way it is currently structred with our aging population, the benefits
for old age assistence will over the next 50 years consume the entire federal budget and bankrupt the country and everyone knows it.

The problem is related to an automatic cost of living adjustment provision
that was suppose to increase the pensions for inflation --- but the formula for calculating it is 'over compensating' so every time there is a cost of living adjustment (annually) the thing ratchets up.

Fiscal sanity could be restored by 'fixing' the cost of living escalator,
but do you think that there is a single political type talking about that---noton your life--- none-- not from any political party. It is the 500 lb invisible elephant in the room.

[JTMcC]

One ton dual rear wheel (over 10,001 lbs. GVW) trucks in commercial use are seeing increased scrutiny and full blown DOT cop enforcemant in some parts of the U.S. Everyone hopes it will go away but it remains to be seen.
The "reasonable" states just want you to be within your axle ratings and tire ratings, and be registered for enough weight. They don't give two hoots if you're over gvwr.

The "old" people could be recycled into food for the young, like that old Charlton Heston movie, "solient green is people!!!!!!!!!!!!!", he screamed as he rode down the conveyor belt. That would solve the social security problem that FDR burdened the nation with so many years ago. OK, maybe not.

I miss Charlton Heston.
"get your filthy hands off me you ****ed dirty ape!!!" rip Chuck.

JTMcC.